Nick Algar - Competition Secretary Posted August 1, 2015 Share Posted August 1, 2015 Thanks for pics and info David, I will ask and let everyone know the reply. Just for relative newbie information I have personally seen a Westfield fitted with one of the factory RAC bars roll right in front of me when I was marshalling at Harewood. It was a very slow roll, ie 30 to 40 mph and I actually was really suprised when it did go over, but over it went and landed half on the track and half on the grass. Luckily the guy driving was very small as anyone bigger would have struggled to get out of the gap IMHO. The windscreen collapsed immediately and didn;t help at all. This and some other 4 or 5 Westie rolls that I am aware of has made me very cautious about ever driving one without a cage on road or track. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spm Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 Caterham seem to manage to have various weather gear options for full cages etc so would be great for those wanting to compete and use their westfield everyday if more weather gear options were to become available. Dave They do, the whole Caterham roll bar / roll cage + weather gear approach is joined up and well designed. I've always wondered why Westfield have never persued developing a full cage that fits weather gear a la Caterham Acadamy cars for example. SPM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Eastwood (Gadgetman) - Club Chairman Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 Now that I never knew! The weather gear actually goes over the full cage? Is this the cage that's similar ish to our Caged, with the front "legs" outside the car? I've said the same myself weather gear wise on the Westfield; other than on the Sport Turbo, it seems to have stalled somewhere in the mid nineties. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spm Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 No Caterham do two cages one that fits inside the weather gear and doors etc and the all out SLR race cage which is like the Westfield full cage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spm Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 Afternoon all, Just thought I'd update you with the response from the MSA regarding the ROPS regulations for 2016 and the compliance of the Westfield RAC bar for competing in speed events in Road Going classes next year. Looks like all versions of the RAC bar (either welded or rose joints) are not compliant, unless this design of roll bar is homologated. See below for info. Hi Simon, The ROPS fails to meet MSA basic requirements on two main points. Firstly the tube dimensions, as Blue Book minima are 45 x 2.5mm or 50 x 2.0mm. Secondly, the use of the rose joints in attaching backstays. The purpose of the National ROPS homologation is to allow alternative designs that do not meet MSA requirements, but can be demonstrated through calculation to be of a sufficient strength. Such ROPS must follow the basic principles of MSA regulations – such as shape of main hoop, diagonals etc. – but there is then freedom in tube dimensions, and in this case the rose joints could be considered if they are accounted for in the stress calculation. If the design is homologated, then this would mean existing ROPS to that design can be acceptable without modification. Otherwise, unfortunately the design does not meet the MSA regulations. Best Regards, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Everall Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 That sounds like a few people may need to upgrade to a cage! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onliest Smeg David Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 That sounds like a few people may need to upgrade to a cage!Or MSA roll bar.But not everyone has the cash to throw at it, so some will not be competing. Possibly me out anyway :( I wonder what the regs are for the Javalin sprint series Ben is doing this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawrie Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 Odd how olds your cage? Mine was new this year, but even the aero race build manual from 2008 shows them. (Rose joints) http://www.manikllc.com/manuals/Westfield_AeroRace_Build_Manual-2008-07-07.pdf Seems odd that the factory didn't make one that complied with the MSA rules, and now it appears that the tube is wrong too. I suppose it didn't have to, but then why call it the FIA cage etc With a new helmet too, the Javelin series is looking better (but they don't seem to have any rules) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Eastwood (Gadgetman) - Club Chairman Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 Didn't the cage have homologation via Caged? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B.RAD Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 Right, that's me out of next years Speed Series then. I have a Westfield Race chassis with the welded in rollover bar, which makes it an integral part of the chassis. I'm not paying over £1000 for a full cage which would mean me grinding apart the chassis to fit it. Gutted Nick, is there anything we can do as a series to contest this and allow us to continue to compete? Cheers Barny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XTR2Turbo Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 Barny No-one says you need a cage. Just a suitable roll over bar. Have you measured and checked whether yours is compliant? I can't see a scrutineer being able to check wall thickness so surely the diameter is the critical dimension in your case. I would also wait to see what Nick comes back with as he was I think discussing the suitability of the current cars. David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XTR2Turbo Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 Didn't the cage have homologation via Caged? yes the caged cage has a silver homologation sticker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onliest Smeg David Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 I would also wait to see what Nick comes back with as he was I think discussing the suitability of the current cars.Fingers, Toes & anything else able to crossed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B.RAD Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 36mm David. It's not the cage, it's the fact that the roll over bar is a welded in, integral part of the chassis, so if it is no longer compliant it would have to be cut off the chassis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Loudon - Sponsorship Liaison Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 Right, that's me out of next years Speed Series then. I have a Westfield Race chassis with the welded in rollover bar, which makes it an integral part of the chassis. I'm not paying over £1000 for a full cage which would mean me grinding apart the chassis to fit it. Gutted Nick, is there anything we can do as a series to contest this and allow us to continue to compete? Cheers Barny Why Barny? I've seen your cage and it looks Ok to me. What make is it? Safety Devices? If its a specific manufacturer that has homologated its design then you should be fine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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