SootySport Posted September 21, 2013 Share Posted September 21, 2013 The Lotus driver was some lucky son of a gun there. It seems Quarry at Castle Coombe has a lot of accidents and I know why. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M444TTB Posted September 21, 2013 Share Posted September 21, 2013 They still tell you in briefings that it's one of the most crashed on corners in global motorsport. Quite some feat! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt nossiter Posted September 21, 2013 Share Posted September 21, 2013 I have a solution, just put one car out on track at a time and time them to see who is quickest......... just sign up all the TD crowd into the Speed Series forthwith!!! It doesn't hold the same appeal driving round one at a time for a lot of people, half the fun of trackdaying is chasing round or being chased by similar paced cars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephenh Posted September 21, 2013 Share Posted September 21, 2013 That's not what I meant. In your solution there's no point in having it in the first place. The point I was making was that the insurer will attempt to recover its losses whatever you, the insured, say. I think there's more to this than we are being led to believe. I suspect that the Type R was going much to fast for the conditions, probably ignored marshal's flags and was, to put it mildly, negligent. Why do I say this. Well there have been many claims made for damage incurred on a track day by people who have track day insurance and there appears not to be any attempt at recovery before now. I think we are in agreement, Norman; just looking at it from different angles. As to your speculation in the second para. of your last post, I am sure you are right. It is a dangerous game to try and interpret a court decision without a transcript of the judgement and without having heard first hand the evidence given at the hearing and the advocates arguments to the court. PS, in the clip of the Lotus and the BMW, the owner of the BMW was very lucky he didn't get sued (assuming of course that he wasn't?) If I was the owner of the Lotus I'd be very tempted to do so. But then again, I don't know the corner in question, so maybe I'm jumping to unjustified conclusions? Edited to add: I just realised I do know the corner, of course it is just past a blind high speed brow! Even so, surely by the time the BMW reached the left kink just before the blind brow, the marshals would have a waved red out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M444TTB Posted September 21, 2013 Share Posted September 21, 2013 At CC back then I doubt it. Yellow flag and carry on. The mind is somewhat concentrated by that point in the circuit so I'd doubt the BMW even saw the flag. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveD Posted September 21, 2013 Share Posted September 21, 2013 Here's the video of said incident. Funny how time changes your memory of events. I thought it was a Z3 MCoupe though. The Lotus driver's problem was also a lack of talent*. I bet he was glad he didn't mooch around any longer looking at the car too! I'd have been over the tyre wall in double quick time given where it had stopped! Aside from the fact the Lotus had crashed first this isn't a dissimilar event to the one we're discussing. *or fell off on the same fluid EDIT: Chatting to a friend about this reminded me what happened back in the paddock too (which is where we were apparently so I must have only seen this video). Some dangler walks straight up to the BMW owner and offers him some stupid amount for salvage. I thought he was going to smack him! and thats a 23b replica not a 11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Colonial Posted September 21, 2013 Share Posted September 21, 2013 and thats an ex-23b replica not a 11 Fixed that for you wuv Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M444TTB Posted September 21, 2013 Share Posted September 21, 2013 Very ex! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveD Posted September 21, 2013 Share Posted September 21, 2013 pah that loti is still going strong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexander72 Posted September 21, 2013 Share Posted September 21, 2013 good point Matt - ive never really done a track day in my life until I did speed series this year so I cant comment other than the Blyton track session on the friday this year scared the living daylights out of me. I am used to having a driver when im on the road so i dont spill my gin and tonic. Im sure track days are jolly good fun but having not done one I cant comment. :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick PC Posted September 21, 2013 Share Posted September 21, 2013 (edited) You think that an insurance company will grant an insured party the ability to remove their ability to recover any losses they suffer? It will almost certainly be a contractual provision that they can't. Besides which, earlier post from chap over on PH (who seems to know his stuff) points out that you can never disclaim liability for negligence (which is what this case apparently hinged on). I think you have misunderstood as what you say in first paragraph is just what I said with different words. I do have a little bit of experience of interpreting insurance policies. Separately I know a bit about liability for negligence and in certain circumstances you can do this, but it has to be done in a more knowledgable way than has been implied in this case. You cannot disclaim liability for death or personal injury but other aspects are for a court to consider whether they are reasonable in the particular circumstances.Thank you for suggesting that I do not know my stuff. As is always said think before you post, particularly when you are not relying on knowledge and not any base understanding Edited September 21, 2013 by Nick PC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wile E. Coyote Posted September 22, 2013 Share Posted September 22, 2013 I think you have misunderstood as what you say in first paragraph is just what I said with different words. I do have a little bit of experience of interpreting insurance policies. Separately I know a bit about liability for negligence and in certain circumstances you can do this, but it has to be done in a more knowledgable way than has been implied in this case. You cannot disclaim liability for death or personal injury but other aspects are for a court to consider whether they are reasonable in the particular circumstances. Thank you for suggesting that I do not know my stuff. As is always said think before you post, particularly when you are not relying on knowledge and not any base understanding In that case, I'm glad you know enough about insurance to be able to resort to personal attacks when someone finds your posts on the matter unclear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeff oakley Posted September 22, 2013 Share Posted September 22, 2013 I did a trackday at Pembury yesterday and in the briefing this was brought up. It was made clear to all that participation in the event was strictly on the understanding that whatever happens you are responsible fo damage to your own car regardless of blame. Anyone not accepting that was told to have a think. Clearly the insurance companies could override this and claim if any with TD insurance where damaged. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s2rrr Posted September 22, 2013 Share Posted September 22, 2013 It seems to a simple me that if you intend going on a trackday the old adage of at your own risk has almost been superceded by the fact that those with track day insurance are actually forcing an issue whereby everyone will have to have it to avoid the risk of a claim against you. If no one had it and the gentlemans agreement was accepted their would be no issues. Has this been created by the hire car idiots who are breaking, in most cases, the contracts they have signed. Never knew Avis or Hertz did track day drives. Not sure how the signed at your own risk document would stand up in law but will look into that as others have and are. My other worry is that those with £500 sheds are flying round with nothing to loose whilst those with more equity and pride if you like in the car are at risk as they have more in the car to loose. The BMW incident was lucky the other driver didn't get wiped out. Bit like driving in Brum, Manchester etc. But in reality how strong is that document or is it purely for the organisers protection, and I can understand that as well. We should be aware we seem to be going down a slippery slope with regards to both the organisers and the drivers. Wouldn't it be good if our signature on the "contract" was actually upheld in court or are we all supposing that is the fact. It would be a massive shame if we and the organisers are forced by the punters to have to increase costs to have full insurance at all events just in case. Saying that I have been overtaken in the chicane at Oulton by a couple of tw*ts ( not an I ) obviously racing when the rule is not too. I know I'm slower than them but when the red mist comes down why should I be placed at risk by the nutters. Evasive driving on the track or just get quicker. Its a dilemma which will drag on for a while. Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Man On The Clapham Omnibus Posted September 22, 2013 Share Posted September 22, 2013 I have to say that as soon as I see another vehicle in my rear view mirror, I prepare to let it past. Even if I have to slow down to let them past at a suitable place to avoid having them close on me at a corner, I will. If it wasn't in view previously and now it is, it follows that it is faster so pride to one side, let it go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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