Track Day Accident - Court awards costs

[Nick Algar - Competition Secretary]

There is an interesting comment from Jonny of BookATrack on page 6 of the Pistonheads thread suggesting that Chaucer are looking at it. However the can has been opened and the worms are out. 

 

As people are rightly pointing out above, there is nothing to stop a civil action for damages and whilst damage to a car is bad, someone getting killed and you being personally liable would be a disaster for anyone if not insured.

 

As James says, take up sprinting, interestingly the MSA does have insurance for all third parties at an event, so whilst the driver and his car are not insured by he MSA, everyone else who is there is :D  Some drivers then take out their own insurance for their car.

[cast iron]

Theres a very similar case been bouncing around from a Track Day at Knockhill, again a Caterham, this was quite serious with the driver being cut out. An attempt was made to sue the other driver which failed, then an attempt to sue the circuit made some headway, as the car managed to go under the barrier, then the circuit tried to pass it onto the other driver again. Not sure where it is at the moment. This judgement may have an affect.

[Hellski]

I was really looking forward to my first track day

[Nick Algar - Competition Secretary]

If you just consider the court case I would have thought it would have been viewed as pretty straightforward.

 

car A is stationary on the grass, car B comes along and runs into it, which is just like running into the back of someone on a road, you are immediate liable unless other circumstances. So pretty easy case to win. The fact that it is on private land is irrelevant. And has already been said all these disclaimers aren't worth the paper they are written on !!

[Dommo]

I was really looking forward to my first track day

 

Don't worry - I've only been driven into once at Hullavington

[alexander72]

hell ski you will be fine mate - just take it easy....

[XTR2Turbo]

I have a solution, just put one car out on track at a time and time them to see who is quickest......... just sign up all the TD crowd into the Speed Series forthwith!!!

Unfortunately it's not always as simple as that.  Take Pembrey or Anglessey as an example where multiple cars on track.  Normally car goes past and next one joins.  I have seen an incident at Pembrey where a car was let out by accident or the driver made a mistake.  What would the liability be if they collided and one had insurance?

 

A similar but related matter is accidents in the paddock where a car comes off a trailer for example as happened twice at Loton a few years ago.

[alexander72]

good point David - hadnt thought of that chap....

[Hellski]

Don't worry - I've only been driven into once at Hullavington

 

Thanks for the reassurance, feeling much better now  See you next Friday

hell ski you will be fine mate - just take it easy....

 

Thanks mate and sure will be, not looking to break any records or the bank

[peterg]

Turns out it was a Blatchatter in the Caterham (not surprising really...)

 

http://www.blatchat.com/t.asp?id=183807

[Ian Podmore]

If you just consider the court case I would have thought it would have been viewed as pretty straightforward.

 

car A is stationary on the grass, car B comes along and runs into it, which is just like running into the back of someone on a road, you are immediate liable unless other circumstances. So pretty easy case to win. The fact that it is on private land is irrelevant. And has already been said all these disclaimers aren't worth the paper they are written on !!

 

I can't see the analogy with a road accident, as on the road you should drive at a speed where you are able to stop in the road that you can see, i.e. a tractor around the corner.

 

On track this is not the case, there are plenty of brows, blind bends etc where the driver relies upon the marshals signals or absence of them so that you can keep it nailed even though you can't see where you will be in 10 metres time.  

 

Other point is that you also expect there to be run off areas on a track, no one coming the other way, no street furniture, and as such you drive in a manner that is closer or perhaps a little beyond the limit as you know there is run off.

 

Without full facts hear there is a lot of p******** in the wind..... (comment not pointed at anyone!)

[Rhett Turner - Black Country AO]

looking at the backchat the broker was REIS (Formerly known as Richard Egger Insurance), one of the insurance companies I looked at when I built my car.

 

We don't know the full story and reading the different threads on others sites they all seem to have some bias one way or another, so I guess finding the exact sequence of events in factual way may be difficult, but I suspect and hope that the Civic Driver must have done something that would deem him to have not taken the appropriate care or caution when yellow (or possibly red) flags are being waved. If this is the case then as long as we are careful and considerate then we should be OK, if the this is a false assumption and the Civic driver was taking appropriate care and caution then things could become very bleak indeed, and 3rd party track day insurance will end up a must. I guess if this happens it will become a little like the travel industry where each holiday/event insurance will be added by default unless you delete it. 

 

It does change one thing though, in the event of an incident on track you could be found liable for costs to a third party, which is something that previous to this point was generally not understood.   

[Wile E. Coyote]

As James says, take up sprinting, interestingly the MSA does have insurance for all third parties at an event, so whilst the driver and his car are not insured by he MSA, everyone else who is there is :d  

 

Friday afternoon curiosity got the better of me and unless I've missed something, whilst covering marshalls/spectators, it doesn't seem to tackle the issue of one car hitting another in an on track incident?

 

"Claims by one competitor against another actually competing in the same event are excluded."

 

See section 7: http://www.msauk.org/uploadedfiles/msa_forms/bluebooks/12/381_386_Insurance_&_Motor_Competitions_(Appendix%202).pdf

[Mark (smokey mow)]

Turns out it was a Blatchatter in the Caterham (not surprising really...)

 

http://www.blatchat.com/t.asp?id=183807

There's a lot more detail in the L7C link i posted earlier Pete http://forum.wscc.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic/104459-track-day-accident-court-awards-costs/?p=1086670

[peterg]

Damn, might have known the Smokey one would have got there first...