Darve's journey from IVA fail to retest

[darve]

I failed IVA on 5 August - full details HERE

 

Retest is booked in for 8am 5 September

 

So time to sort out the fail points to ensure I pass next time. Fail points are:

 

1. coolant bleed/overflow pipe chaffing on chassis tab in front of the pedal box cover
2. emission test failed - very high on the co2's at idle (6.78% needs to be 0.3%) - suggests excess fuel at idle (surprises me as rolling road set it up to pass and he said it did. lumpy as **** at idle as well)
3. clutch fluid weeping out of bottom of the banjo bolt on the slave cylinder
4. handbrake lever hits the chassis bracket when yanked up (he really yanked it   )
5. handbrake not effective enough
6. headlight beam image "kickup" is towards the nearside when it should be the offside
7. the braking ratio not as they want it (the complicated one). Basically the difference gap between the force of the pads on the discs at the front to back is too small as pressure increments increases

So progress has been as follows:

1. this was resolved at the test centre. just turned a p-clip 180 degress
2. with the help of NMS I think this has been resolved - see HERE
3. ordered a new slave cylinder and 2 banjo bolts (so I have one spare) from mx5parts. Arrived on Wednesday but the threaded hole where the banjo bolt goes in is on the p*** so the clutch line would never seal. Rung them up to get a replacement and asked them to check the replacement isn't on the p*** as well. Replacement one turns up and yes that one's on the p*** as well. They must have a bad batch so will give them a call tomorrow to get another 

 

    4/5. handbrake cable shortened further and now have plenty of spare travel before the lever would hit the chassis. the cable is fixed to the centre part of a turnbuckle by being fed through the hole at the end and then through an slightly enlarged hole in a banjo bolt and clamped down really tight with washers sandwiched either side of the cable and a nut. Just hope it holds up and doesn't slip! Yanking on it doesn't cause any movement so should be OK. the previous set-up I used had a bit of flex in it and wasn't tight enough meaning the park brake wasn't effective enough. Car is up on axle stands and I cannot turn the hub using a 2 foot break bar on the rear hub nut. and that's without the handbrake lever pulled up that hard so this issue should be resolved.

 

  6. Still to be resolved

 

  7. not done anything in this respect yet. I've spent a lot of time researching the bias when the brakes are setup in the mx5 and the westfield master cylinder but it's really all mute as the weight shift will be different anyway. On the other thread linked to first above I have found that both Kuga and Dommo passed with exactly the same pads and discs as I have - so it's a bit mystifying. I've gone over the whole braking system and the only thing I found was the fluid in the master cylinder was a little low. After speaking to various people and their experiences, following a fail on brakes at IVA they all fitted a bias valve. This shouldn't be needed as Gary and Dom passed with the same set up. However I need to do something to ensure that I pass next time!

 

My thinking at the moment is that for certainty over the pads is to fit a set of OEM pads all round. There is the argument to only change the fronts to make them more effective but then I have not certainty that that would be the case. Clean the discs. Rebleed all round. Take/make as many opportunities to drive the car to bed the new pads in. Fit a bias valve that is lockable to comply with the IVA requirements and make the label required per the IVA manual. Have the bias valve set fully open because, as stated above, one shouldn't be needed. Any other setting on the bias bar would be a guess anyway. If the brakes fail at the test again, then hopefully the tester would allow me to tweak the bias and re lock the adjuster so that it passes. Sound like a plan? 

 

Mark - I know you suggested the idea about going to an airfield to bed the brakes in but I don't have a tow car or a trailer. My dad has a tow car and I'm sure I could borrow Bernie's trailer  but my dads inconsiderate enough to go on holiday this Wednesday for a couple of weeks  The drive out to the MOT station would give me a chance to bed the new OEM pads in a bit and them maybe book again to get errrr something else tested to get the car on another run out ....... 

 

So that's some progress made, but in reality I have plenty of time.

 

Comments and suggestions welcome   

[Norman Verona]

Dave, I agree about OEM pads all round but have you tried "bedding" the existing pads in with emery cloth on a flat surface. 

 

As far as the handbrake is concerned have you yanked it on as hard as you can, really hard, and then inspected underneath to ensure it's well away from the chassis. 

 

I don't fully understand 6 (headlights) but are the inner parts the right way up?

 

If you have a friendly MOT station can't you ask him to verify, if anyone calls, that you have an appointment on the day and just drive back and forward from home to the MOT station all day. You shouldn't need a bias valve, either there's something wrong with master cylinder or front calipers or the pads are not bedded in. It's easy to check the front calipers, remove the pads one at a time and with someone pressing the brake pedal lightly and you using a screwdriver to hold the piston back you'll see if they are all free to come out and return. I think you'd feel if there was something wrong with the m/cylinder.

[darve]

Norm - sorry forgot to respond to your message on the other thread.....

Yes I thought about using emery cloth after you suggested it but I have no way of testing anything that I change! Hence why I'm thinking of the bias valve as at least that way I'll have a way of adjusting the rears at the test centre. Sods law will dictate that if I don't fit one, I'll need to adjust. I'f fit one and leave it open (or closed, whichever way adjusts the bias) then it will be fine

I'll check the movement of the pistons thanks

Re the handbrake - it's well away front the chassis. Pulling with both hands and it doesn't hit (I'm strong too don't you know joke). There's reserve travel after it's been pulled fairly hard at which point the discs are held tight, which is what the tester is looking for

Re the headlamps, the tester said the beam kick up is to the wrong side. He said the lens just needs rotating a bit. The pattern on the lens must cause this but I'll look at the innards when I have them off. See pic of lens

[Norman Verona]

The pattern is on the lens. There used to be a small arrow to show BDC if you see what I mean.

 

If your brake set up is that same (in components) as others (other than the pad materiel) then the only thing that can be wrong is air in the front calipers, a faulty m/cylinder, sticking pistons or "glazed" or un-bedded pad faces.

 

Bedding in with emery cloth won't hurt, check the pistons are free, bleed again taking carefull not to see if any air comes out (you'll have to prime the bleed pipe) and the rest is so unlikely that it's probably not worth checking.

 

By the way, is the master cylinder new or off the donor. If off the donor have you stripped and cleaned it and fitted new seals? It is possible it has some sediment in it partially blocking the front circuit.

 

Good luck, wish I could do more to help.

[darve]

there is an arrow on the lens but that's at 12 oclock at the moment. not really worried about that fail as he said I can adjust at the retest if needed.

 

m/c is new from WF. the thought has crossed my mind if it's faulty. maybe WF will be accommodating but I understand there is a delay in supply of the m/c's at the moment

 

have bought an ezibleed tool for rebleeding the brakes and clutch

 

appreciate the help

[Norman Verona]

I have an eaziblled but don't use it as I prefer the foot on pedal method as I can control it better. I can get HM to pump up the volume, er, pressure, and press slowly or harder as I want. Just an old timers view and probably not valid. Just make sure the m/cylinder cap is on properly and you keep the m/cylinder topped up.

 

If it's a new cylinder the chances of it being faulty (to cause this problem) are very remote.

[KugaWestie]

Yep, cant beat the old way, 2 people, one pumping the pedal, the other opening and closing the banjo.

 

Up......down.....up...............down...............up........down

 

You get the idea!

[Dave Eastwood (Gadgetman) - Club Chairman]

I'm sure Frankie Howerd must have a quiet chuckle to himself in heaven, everytime two people bleed a set of brakes :laugh:

[Norman Verona]

Should that be ....

 

 

In ..... out,  In ...... out, In .... out, In ..... out,  In ...... out, In .... out, 

 

 

Oooh Missus.

[Dave Eastwood (Gadgetman) - Club Chairman]

Should that be ....

 

 

In ..... out,  In ...... out, In .... out, In ..... out,  In ...... and Hold it....out, is it getting harder?

 

Oooh Missus.

[Mark (smokey mow)]

Dragging a thread off topic as usual

  

Encouraging Norman

 I really don't see that this is helping Dave much, do you

 

 

Mark - I know you suggested the idea about going to an airfield to bed the brakes in but I don't have a tow car or a trailer. My dad has a tow car and I'm sure I could borrow Bernie's trailer  but my dads inconsiderate enough to go on holiday this Wednesday for a couple of weeks  The drive out to the MOT station would give me a chance to bed the new OEM pads in a bit and them maybe book again to get errrr something else tested to get the car on another run out ....... 

 

So that's some progress made, but in reality I have plenty of time.

 

Comments and suggestions welcome   

Dave, is that an OEM clutch slave cylinder from MX5 parts or the much cheeper copy? I had nothing but grief with the cheep copies leaking on mine so have now switched to using the much more expensive mazda one as the quality is so much better. Much like your's they would weep around the banjo connection.

As i've said previously I would not fit a bias valve, the front brakes are not working effectively and first off we need to try and undertand why. If you need a hand with trailering it anywhere give me a shout and I'll try to help you if I can.

[Norman Verona]

Mark, I don't understand your comment. Kuga made a comment, Dave followed up and so did I.

 

I'm so sorry you appear not have any humour in you or is it just me you want to have a go at?

[darve]

Hi Mark, yes that's the cheaper option available from mx5parts. The one I have fitted at the moment is the one from the donor vehicle and TBH has the smallest weep imaginable. My thought process to replace the slave cylinder with a new banjo and copper washers was to be certain that this weep doesn't rear it's ugly head come retest time. I had look at the reviews and the comments seemed positive on this cheaper option. As with most things, you get what you pay for. Given I wan't certainty that it won't weep again, and you've experienced a weeping using the cheaper option, I'll get the order upgraded to the OEM one.

 

I feel like I'm going round in circles when thinking over a solution for the brakes issue and I guess that's because I know that whatever I do I can't be certain it's been resolved for the retest. I inherently therefore wan't to make lots of changes to make myself feel like I have done something. Perhaps I need to accept that it's something that I will work on and will have to go to the retest and if it fails again, then it fails again.

 

As you say, which is obvious now you've repeated it, the fronts aren't working effectively enough and that's the problem. Supported by the fact that more than we would expect pressure is required on the pedal in order to lock the wheels. I don't want to reduce the effectiveness of the rears by using a bias valve as all I'd be doing is making the whole system less effective overall.

 

As the the front and rear circuits are separate in the m/c, it would be safe to say that the problem must lie somewhere along the front circuit somewhere.

1. faulty m/c - unlikely as Norman says as this is new from WF
2. kink in the brake lines - I have checked very carefully the whole line and it's all nice clean soft bends. Pic below of the tightest bend. I've put a slight twist in the flexi lines to stop them touching the wishbones on lock to lock for the IVA test. This wouldn't restrict flow would it? Pic also below
3. Calipers not moving freely - will whip a pad out as Norman suggests and check they are moving in and out freely
4. Pads - but using the same as Dom and Gary
5. Discs - but using same as Dom but don't know about Gary
6. Air in the lines - obviously possible - will rebleed. Jack front up with pedal wedged down and bleed again the following day.

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks for your offer of trailer help - I may take you up on that  As I said before I'll have to get you something chrome (or something else if you'd prefer) for your car I know you've spent a lot of hours researching things and helping me and it's greatly appreciated   You'll have to wait until the car is on the road as it only seems appropriate to celebrate once that's been achieved   

[XTR2Turbo]

Darve

 

before you get into doing lots of changes to the front brakes, I would suggest a visit to a friendly MOT station that would let you keep bedding the brakes in on their brake tester and systematically testing the improvement in brake load.

 

My XTR failed SVA initially on front brakes.  The friendly tester helped bed them in for 5 minutes on the tester and they passed.  I had trailered my car to the test centre so the improvement may not be as great for you having driven a bit but still worth a go IMHO.

 

Did you clean the discs with a degreaser before fitting?

 

If not spray a bit of water on the discs to encourage a bit of surface rust - this coarseness will help them bed in ..

[darve]

Hi David

 

I'm off to a friendly MOT station next Saturday and have asked them to do a brakes test as well. Good idea about systematically testing the improvement on brake load. I'll put that to them and I'm sure they'll be accommodating.

 

Did you clean the discs with a degreaser before fitting?

 

If not spray a bit of water on the discs to encourage a bit of surface rust - this coarseness will help them bed in ..

 

No I didn't - didn't realise needed to. Another rookie mistake 

 

Another good idea re the water, will do that on the Friday night before Saturday and also when I arrive at the MOT station if I have to wait around for a bit.

 

Thanks