Leaderboard

I've just popped this on my blog but thought it might be better served here to generate some well mannered lock down debate. Or name calling, any kind of interaction will do nowadays! It will possibly be a bit patronising in places as we already know what Westfields are like, so apologies for that. My thoughts on owning a ‘big power’ Westfield With a few years of a 340bhp Westfield under my belt, I’ve found myself more and more hinting others against such levels of power. I did have the word “advising” rather than hinting in there, but that’s not fair as I don’t think a big power Westfield is a bad thing. Quite the opposite, in fact. It’s just a very different thing to when it was a middling power Westfield. Given that I’m strongly considering a rather dramatic change of direction for my car, I thought it best to write down my thoughts on what it’s meant, even if just for my own benefit. I’ll approach a few of the more popular themes when someone mentions a rather silly bhp for a Westfield “It’s a handful on the road” Well, I suppose if it’s a track only car, which mine has been for a couple of years, that doesn’t really matter. However, when it had an MOT, it was a fantastic road car. I never had to change gear to find a higher speed, just ride the massively flat torque curve. It’s a ridiculously docile car which, aside from a slightly grabby clutch (more OEM feeling ones that handle the power are available), could probably be driven by just about anyone. It’s about the furthest from a handful that you can get. What you can’t do, however, is work it on the road. It is far too quick for us mere mortals to be aware of hazards, correct the car over any bumps, change gear, process what’s going on around you, have to change gear again and even by the time you’ve read this, you’re significantly above any speed limits or indeed speeds where you’d survive and accident. To that end, it does stop being a Westfield, and become the world’s smallest GT car. Great and smoothing out the corners and cruising up to the next one with the gentlest of squeezes of the throttle. Thoroughly dangerous when deploying all of the horses. This is not a bad thing. In some ways it’s positive because you tend to drive slower and smoother, and you already know that you genuinely are the fastest thing on the road and have nothing to prove. The person with a 150bhp Westfield accelerating hard for 15 seconds between corners might be having more fun though. “You can’t keep it cool” More power, more heat. More revs, more heat. Can’t really escape that one. A Westfield also doesn’t have a lot of ways of getting rid of that heat. The bonnet opening is filled by a radiator originally specced to cool a 1.0 Polo. Now we’re trying to use the same area to cool a power output a comedy factor more than said Polo. This is where you spend your money. The radtec radiator/intercooler combo was the single biggest investment in the turbo projects and it’s fulfilled its role beautifully. These are the coolant and intake temps recorded over a track session that must have had 26 minutes of full speed work. That was on one of those rare summer days with actual sun as well, so mid 20s plus the sunshine baking the tarmac. Those peaks are within 1.5 degrees of each other – to handle that for all that length of time is particularly impressive. Though of course, I deserve more praise for staying out there that long. I’d say one of the benefits of having a large amount of power is also that you can afford to lose some. My engine runs a tiny bit rich precisely to provide a little bit of cooling assistance. “Turbo engines are laggy, peaky and difficult to drive” You tend to see these comments from the older generation, and that’s fair enough… they’ve driven 80’s turbos and, frankly, they’ve earned that opinion! None of it holds true nowadays though. The very modern turbo engines are impressively responsive. I think the only criticism you can throw at them nowadays is they don’t tend to rev that high anymore. My car sits in the middle of those two extremes. It’s not laggy, it’s not peaky and it’s easy to drive. It also revs to 7.4k and makes power all the way there. But it’s not as responsive as something like an EcoBoost when lower in the rev range. Fine on track, but I do think it would be a bit frustrating on the road. Then I suppose, we’ve already decided that the throttle is to be used sparingly on the road. Also, is it any worse than an N/A engine with cams aimed for top end power? Back to throttle response on track, it’s fine. You don’t wait for the power to come in. You don’t wait for the boost to build. It’s all there if you ask for it. Take the following graph of throttle position (blue), boost (red) and RPM (beige?): This shows the entry into a chicane, balancing the throttle through it and powering out of it. The throttle has been off for 4 seconds before this, suggesting I’ve caught a car up and it let me past on the exit. You can see the first input into the throttle produces an instant response from the turbo, and this is from 3.3k rpm so reasonably low for track work. This tracks the throttle position until the second application, where by the turbo responds again but is held back once it reaches the actuator level. Here, because the RPMs are in the mid range, the boost level is reduced to manage that massive lump of torque turbos like to give. Perhaps the reason they’re often described as peaky. The boost is now following a rising limit to keep the torque curve as flat as possible. At the gear change, the throttle is off 100% for 0.5 seconds. The boost follows this, taking 0.6s to achieve 21psi again. Which yes, is higher than it was originally set but crucially, not higher than it has been mapped for. Either way, I think that’s plenty responsive enough. So what do I think? Big power doesn’t ruin a Westfield. I’m 100% confident in that. What it does do though, at least for mere mortals, is change it. I’ve found that corners on track are mere obstacles to be cleared ready for the next application of power. Get the car slowed down (no mean feat!), turn in, get it roughly near the apex, balance the throttle, wait for it to straighten out, then deploy the power down the straight ready for the next corner. It’s made me lazy in many respects. On a sequence of close together corners or chicanes, I won’t be taking stabs of throttle between them. Just a gentle squeeze to smoothly get me to the next one without arriving too quickly and giving myself too much to do. Quite the difference to when I had 150-160bhp on throttle bodies. I suppose in that respect it’s ironically safer on track as you don’t tend to go hunting for those extra tenths. You don’t need to. It’s probably quite telling that since fitting a turbo, I’ve never spun on track. I’ve gone straight on at corners more than once! But never spun it. There is only ever one thing quicker than me on a track, and that’s a lighter, less powerful Westfield/Caterham. They’re usually on slicks, so a more serious effort than mine, but typically 100bhp or more down on me. And if they’re quick enough to catch me up despite the deficit on the straights, it shows how much I waste through the corners by not applying the throttle or pushing the car. Which isn’t speed I’m wasting, it’s fun and personal reward. I’ve had a lot of fun with my Westfield, and I don’t regret any of the options and even at my most modest I think I’ve done a really good job of breaking the 300bhp barrier in the right way. Even if I never actually meant to. But I’ve had my fun now, and it’s time for a change. For a long time now I’ve wanted to build another, knowing what I’ve learned over the last 7 years. So I’m going to rebuild this one, with less power, and more revs, and less weight, and more noise. Goodbye gentle beast. Hello bl**** idiot. That’s an RX-8 231 engine. It’s going to rev to 10k+, it’s going to breathe fire, it’s going to drink fuel like it's a water wheel and confine me to the noisy step on track days… and every now and again… it might even work!

Finally got my Peak district fix today. Driving down Winnats Pass. Also we stopped off at Tagg Lane dairy which was open for take away.

Just got breakdown cover for my megabusa from the A plan, £45 full recovery and Europe cover couldn’t be happier 👍👍👍😊😊😊

Hi, After reading through the forums and getting some helpful advice, I called A-plan today for a quote. Really helpful people and a really great quote! Thanks for the advice! W

Hi All, We have asked for this topic to be pinned to remain active and allow the members to leave feedback and comments as and when the need arises. If you need more images on a certain product, more information, qty required per vehicle, please feel free to comment, it allows us to see it an address it and we can advise once it's completed. Constant feedback will enable us to improve. Stay safe. Thank you Parts Dept.

Here she is!..

I’ll get me coat...

Fantastic article and thanks for the honesty! Certainly makes you think about the never ending quest for power... or is it speed.... or is it fun?

Not got any roundabouts closer? You could do laps of that for the same experience.

try this link https://join.skype.com/FYh83zx0g0oP

Finally someone that wants a road car with a sensible amount of horsepowers! A few cars available on Facebook sound like they may fit the bill, good luck with the search

Ian i just sent you my id

The CV joint bolts are just not shifting with the tools I have sadly; manage to shear off a Trok head in one. I'm content/resigned to getting it booked in with the garage. Swapping the switches over worked, there is one dodgy pole on the (old) hazard switch; fog only needs the one, obvs. I'll grab a spare from @Ian Tolfree (tolf) - WSCC AO Rep for which many thanks. MOT now due in November, however everything bar the CV boots and a possible Gearbox to prop-shaft oil seal leak, are sorted ta.

Aww thanks so much!! We try our best and it's always great to read comments showing our dedication to service pays off! 🥰 Now we just need to get everything with A-Plan so we can be really helpful on all your insurances 😅 I'm here online when you need me also just drop me a pm or find me on facebook 'Carlie Norwell' a-plan logo is the profile picture - I'm online all the time even though I only work 3 days a week because I like to make sure you're all well looked after! Carlie

Nooooooooooooooooooo 🤣

Hi Ian Pm sent to join you all please. Martin

Well Blatters it must be different down there. It's not like that in Cheshire. I've had no issue with the police and have spoken to a few and they are fine with it. It's a general effect and seems to be working fine. Anyway thought this might be of humour . Copied from elsewhere If WW2 started today. - Why weren't you stockpiling Merlin engines? - The air raid shelter hasn't been used in a month, the government was clearly wasting money by building it. - "Your country needs you" is ambiguous, I expect to be told exactly what to do. - Why isn't the government specifically considering the impact of the Blitz on minorities? - Just because we've broken off diplomatic relations with Germany is no reason we can't buy army boots from them. We should have stayed in the Third Reich. - You can't make me carry that gas mask, it's against my human rights. - You can't make me carry that gas mask, I'm vegan and the straps are made from leather. - I don't want to wear your issued uniform, my homemade one from old flowery bed sheets is much better. - The air raid siren is frightening my pets, stop it. - The prime minister's spokesman said some numbers wrong, so the whole government effort to fight this war is clearly utterly incompetent. - Why are you restricting my freedom, just because there's a war on? - Why didn't you restrict my freedom sooner, I needed to be told exactly which air raids not to go out in. Simply saying "if bombs are falling from the sky, get to somewhere safe" was nowhere near enough information. - I don't care if the high street has been bombed out, it's my right to go and have a hair cut. - Everything would have been so much better if we'd left Neville Chamberlain in charge, Churchill is a buffoon with a rubbish haircut who loves the sound of his own voice too much.

A 9 mile drive today on backroads to take me to my walk.

well im going

So jealous! Exactly what I had planned for last Sunday... Until the cycle wing decided to get more closely acquainted with the tyre 😂

I'm ready, just need the code please.

Bit of an update, finally made the call to A-Plan, left it to the last day of the previous policy of course. Was given a very reasonable quote so got one of the fleet covered, not sure which vehicle is up next but looking forward to seeing what they can do.

Hi Carlie, it's nice to hear the personal approach. I'll be on the phone tomorrow morning to insure my third vehicle with you (2 regular, 1 Westie).

Where’s that warning button! 👿

Family first! @Andy_R, join if/when you can. Thanks for letting us know.

Sorry to hear that Andy, hope she gets better soon.

Agree But not cheap option

Excellent! Will have to look when household insurance I’d due.

As per the title. No wires off of the back anymore but it may be good for someone to overhaul their unit. Only fitted for 2 runs. just postage costs and it’s yours

Cheers Dave, thanks for your prompt attention 👍

I asked this same question when I last renewed. I agree it isn't obvious, maybe the invoice could be changed to reflect this?

Hi Rab, no your good, I've looked "back-office" and your new renewal date is 16/06/2021 so it is adding it from the old expiry date. (It's not at all obvious from the paid-invoice though, I must admit. I did have to dig a bit to find the relevant bit!!

Just booked Donnington on 22nd June

That's easy for you to say, post to me means sending something via Royal Mail.

I used Shipley no problems, but like with most things in life everyone will have good and bad examples they can share.

This’ll help.

Hi Snags Thanks for the offer but it is just to big for my application!" Sorry to decline Graham

There's sumfin wrong wiv da wigglies..... and it's in there..... gizza shove and I'll have a butchers....

That’s great. We are now up to 8 members who are attending. It would be fantastic if we could get a really good turn out for this event Any other members interested?

On results so far, the Police appear to be the last ones aware of what the actual laws are!

I firmly believe this is one of our greatest strengths. We have plenty of grit when grit is called for, and when it isn't we'll be off to the pub for a pint and a pie...

😃😜 I know it’s a bit novel - but have to say, they were great!

I’m still struggling to parse the thread title......makes zero sense

Oi, I'll have you know, roughly half of the rivit holes are filled in now

Kit collected in 2010, and the first quick drive of it today. Only 10 miles, as wanted a quick shake down

I'm now a Westfield owner... bought a 2013 Westfield Mazda SDV in the end. So managed to tick a few items off the list, widebody, fuel injection, removable rear arches and heated windscreen 😀

I carry this....

Sorry everyone ... my wife is poorly so I'll be occupied with the kids. If I can I'll try and join later when the kids have gone to bed.