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We met at McD's, Dave was there too, just out of camera shot. It was 9.30 am in the morning and the non-drivers had already started on the whisky in Glen's hip flask, what are they like? Axminster Andrew had new heated seats and plush carpets fitted, when is the fireplace going in? We arrived at the GBS factory, where I did expect it to be quiet, but there was one only GBS car parked up, when we arrived, extra to the factory ones on display. One other that was up for sale came on a trailer and then I only saw another 2 visitors. We didn't delay in helping them get through the BBQ of German sausages, currywurst sauce washed down with a little sip of German beer. Boy, could I go and live in Germany, I can eat this all day long. The ladies found the mulled wine and did their bit to relieve them of the large quantity that was available, Clare was giggling a lot at this point, can't think why. After the 'starter' we went inside for dessert, and the lovely GBS ladies did not disappoint with their homemade produce. Burp, oh excuse me, shall we do the car bit now? We parked in the Westfield Parking Area outside the factory, that's right isn't it? well if the GBS's aren't coming we will at least try and draw some people in by giving them something interesting to look at, it's the least we can do. I like a clean car, but I don't dislike the 'rally car' look that Dave had gained on the journey here, use 'em and mucky 'em, it's good practice. The car behind is the one for sale, not the highest build quality and the owner would not discuss a price, just saying 'make me an offer' he wasn't a salesman then. It was all hot sausage and no bun for Glen Inside Martyn and Dave were having a rest from eating by admiring the suspension set up that was on display. The was also a 2 litre Zetec on show in the Kit Spares shop I had better put some GBS photo's on, there's a good girl A quiet car park We had a good chat with the owner about the new car that is being launched in the spring of 2018 and then it was time to go to Thoresby Park for, erm, lunch. Andrew was doing his bit for the Santa Run It didn't quite go to plan, the little military museum was closed and then the staff in the cafe were adamant that we could not fit 7 around a table...ready for it....because the plates are too big. It was a good one and definitely a new one on me. We go to a lot of places as a big group and we always get a warm welcome, with staff doing their best to accommodate all of us. The lady on the next table recommended that we go to the Antiques Emporium at Budby, only a mile or so down the road. So we did, and it was a huge success, with guess what, helpful staff. Let the feasting begin. With plenty of parking and good food we will be returning here I will have to watch my husband though, he was flirting with the staff, and look at his wandering hands We kept warm today by wearing the local road kill population, and my hot water bottle has had twins. Andrew did not come out of the antiques centre unscathed, as Clare was treated to an early xmas present, but I think he knew that was going to happen as soon as the lady had suggested we go to an antiques place. Thank you to Dave, Martyn and Sue, and Andrew and Clare for making it a great day for us today. it has been wonderful, and just increases my confusion over why anyone would not come out in their Westfield on a winter's day, try it, you never know, you might actually like it.

Was a bit chilly on the way back... There was proper snow in the fields and verges by the time I got to Buxton and the Cat and Fiddle road. Very picturesque, briefly, then as it started getting dark, the fog came down, properly thick. Another fab day though, excellent sausage and cakes at GBS, who seem to have an ambitious car development plan well on track to launch new Race chassis for the existing Zero, and the all new Seven style car next year.

It seems to me that if the goal is increasing participation in the series you have three discrete groups with possibly different factors Attracting newbies, incubating novices and retaining experts personally I am not convinced that target times are an obstacle to attracting novices. i assume ssot have done some research on this but I believe it is more the msa changes the rops and the perception of value given amount of track time vs track days and the need to get organised with licences and equipment rather than just turn up and drive. I probably would never have bothered if I was not located in an area (Herts beds and bucks) where much of the discussion and enthusiasm at the monthly meet was the speed series. Most years there are 15 to 20 cars at blyton that just do the track day. What would the feedback from this group conclude? I think (without evidence) the issue for novices staying is the sense that there is close and comparable competition. I think that from this perspective a handicap system or much tighter restrictions on car spec for novices would be attractive and also the step from novice to expert might be too large i would have thought that there is a big enough sample of novice drivers that don't do many events or don't stay after a single yeAr to create some robust research Let's also not loose sight of the social element to the series and friendships that develop. imho this needs to be promoted as much as anything else

Such a creep @Julie Hall - AO Representative, Peak District AO . You'll say anything to have another blat with Vtec @IanK (Bagpuss)

I think you will find that the regular trackdayers who don't sprint want track time. The cost of a day at a trackday is of a similar order to the entry fee for a sprint, and most of the regular trackday enthusiasts compare the relative amount of time on track. They either cannot appreciate the considerable "buzz" of competing, as opposed to the enjoyment of aimlessly driving round and round a track for lap after lap. Competition simply isn't for everybody, so maybe there is no solution to the problem of attracting most regular trackday enthusiasts to sprinting? And I think that when the Speed Series started there were a lot less trackdays available to the man in the street. I still think it is cost that puts off many potential new novice entrants. There are (at least) 2 unconnected issues here: One is how do you encourage new novices to enter, and the other is how do you retain those novices after their first season. I don't think the issue of class A & B target times is relevant to the former, for them cost and possible risk of expensive damage are the main issues. However once they have done a few events, maybe a first season, then the question of target times becomes relevant.

You're never going to impress you're mates playing 'pub Car Top Trumps' when you tell them you've got a 3 cylinder 1.5 Engine, regardless of cost or horsepower! Most people's Gran's have bigger engines than that They do shift but I doubt they sound as nice as a Westie on full chat! Based on my experience of driving the crazy powered Tesla car, I expect the i8 to be as equally bland to drive too.

Permission to buy a Cage and no complaints or upset when I also bought a bonnet

Well I thought it was funny. Life doesn't always have to be so serious.

Since we are nearly there, just a thread on what was on the list and what you got for the Westie or driving them. This obviously may not get going until after the big day, although I have a hope 'this' will happen , as I bought them and gave them to the missus.......... I asked for some new Puma driving boots and I hope to be getting them, as gave the box to the Mrs to wrap Anyone else asked for any Westie related presents ?

I'm the same . My last bike was a buell. ...not a high top speed but always made me smile. I changed to a Westfield for same reasons and thinking you don't mend as quicklycat 50+. Not regretted the change . Great club and people... I just get fatter because of too many cakes

I agree David, but I suspect we are both fortunate enough to own "proper things of beauty" The whole i8 seems a bit of a paradox as when they are tested the MPG is way below the manaufactures figures by a very significant amount. Costs a fortune as well, mind doesn;t come bottom of the Which reliability survey like the Tesla

Correct response @IanK (Bagpuss), even though it dashed my dreams, I am doing the right thing enjoying my Westfield and working part time then?

I agree with the cap for events with no target where points could vary rather wildy depending on who's in class on the day, but other than that I think 101 cap is quite harsh when the vast majority of times are pretty settled.

Yeah that sounds good Bernie - let me know when you guys go

Low entry racing jack :-)

Only been the once, but loved the 300 layout. Some really good corners. Two very long straights that have forced me to look at an alternative powerplant

Please add me and Julie to this please,inc meal Thank. You Jim

Cheer up Ash! With all the bad weather you must be rubbing your hands with glee,................... all the Honda S2000's likely to get written off, for you to salvage!

Yes - very, very small weep. Like 1tsp in a month lost - header tank never needed topping up. It was more of an unsightly annoyance than a leak, but figured it would only get worse. Replacement rad has been perfect so far. All in all I'm very happy - in my opinion the way a problem is dealt with speaks volumes for a company.

Schhhhhhhhhhh.

I won't be coming, sorry. Have my mince pie for me, Julie. I remember donutting last time I was out with you, sponsored by Trev's excellent home made ones

Makes it worth organising when everyone has a good time!

I agree it's a thing of beauty but would I go back to work? You're havin a Turkish...!

So let’s start a silly competition, how many Westfields can you get for an i8 roadster?

I resemble that remark! And that one!

Just think if you didnt spend all that money on cakes !!!

All I am going to say @Geoffrey (Buttercup) - North Yorkshire AO 'Pansy' ..............................

Just call them class records instead of target times,,,,,,,,,,

Funeral today. Competition helmet on coffin. Very motorsport oriented send off. Current and ex-WSCC members present were Paul Pocklington, Paul Morcom, Chris, Guy, and me. So, good representation. Andy’s condolence card on behalf of all Club members was very well received. Thanks Andy, on behalf of Monica. thanks to all contributors for the messages on this thread, which I have passed on. David

I think this would work and make lots happy- Soften all targets by about 25% ( bit more for A+B) But remove cap. Then everyone feels like a driving god for beating TT, all novices also see themselves exceeding TT But fastest will still win

my only observation is target times will never be perfect ,for when the msa decide the next tyre out there that is to good they will put it in the 1c band and your problem will start again . ditch finders are the future and hans devices and cages for when you crash . i think the team have a big problem trying to balance the rules to appease everyone . which they wont be able to do im afraid yes you need to get new blood but i think its more the cost due to the msa that has caused the problems not the target times . when i joined as a novice in my car it still had carpets std gearbox and i used it on the road full tank etc etc .but i was in class f because it had 1b tyres and aero screen . that was the rules . i could have put on 1A tyres on it and windscreen and entered a lower class . but i was not worried about about that i just wanted to see how i could compete against the fast boys . i think its good being the under dog and improving your car to the best you can .and see how close you can get to the others in your class. after all the biggest gains are early on as you start out and it gets harder as to progress but thats what drives most people on . if you make it to easy people will come and people will go just as quick [ if its to easy] .no challenge i still dont understand the std westfield bit . no westfield is ever std and newer the car the better spec it is .

Thankyou Martin for rear axel cantwait to get her in now

I´m still a novice!! only 15 events!! So still 10 to go. If I would have known how was the average level and what I and my car were capable off, I wouldn´t have entered as a novice in my first year, but I was new in the country, I was new in sprinting, car was new... never driven before in wet... so seemed sensible not to be too ambitious. I started in the series last year, 33Yo. My only experience in competition was when 18, 19 yo doing 3 or 4 evens with a R5 turbo in rallyes. I crashed in most of them. I did trackdays since then... and since 27 yo really really commited at leas visiting the track 7 or 8 times a year. After my second event I feelt capable of being in experts, and compete with the few guys in class B and with some class D... Same applyes to Barny same year as me... where he wast the fastest westfiedl (by 4 seconds and reruns in anglesey, but still, faster than everyone else and second overall) in anglesey and in Loton park wich was impressive. Rules did qualify us as novices. Our skills maybe not (now I´m being cocky, sorry) but that is why stepped up this year despite being a novice by rules, I didn´t felt I should be there, and is the reason why i would support an "access championship" based in lesser rounds and quite limited modifications in cars, rather than the propper novice one.

Here you go....might leave your rear end vulnerable tho.

I think that most novices will be coming from a trackday background these days and have cars that are already modified in some way from this vision of a 'Standard ' road car. They will generally have uprated brakes, cages , race seats. PPE, etc. I think it would be very difficult to define and police a standard road car and that the class will be empty anyway The MSA rules on ROPS simply put off the casual competitor. Most hoops dont comply , not even the old RAC ones. Also IMHO you would have to be mad not to fit a full cage to compete. It seems to me that the following would make alot of people happier ( and be easy to implement)- 1) I agree with Adam in that a tweek of a % or two should be made to A + B TTs 2) run a mini/sprint series for experts as well as novices I am building up a car from an old live SE that Tim P has had in his barn for years. It will be very basic - Std engine of some kind, std gearbox, probably no ARBs , No LSD etc. Using as many S/H bits as poss ( with exception of a new cage) . Now my point is that it will NOT be competitive in ANY class but it Will allow me to get out there, have some fun , and try my best to get as close to the competitor above me as poss.

You have somebody posting a serious wanted add and get people posting sh*t like this absolutely no help at all and not even funny cannot get my head around why people feel the need to do it.

Maybe David is getting confused with the RAC bar. Those are much less sought-after not being sprint legal any longer. Still worth a good £50-100 though from what I've seen, they are a worthy upgrade over the standard Ikea (flat-pack ) roll hoop!