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I just wanted to say a massive thankyou to Bogg Brothers of East Lutton. Last week, Buttercup broke down and had to be taken home on a car transporter. I contacted Steve Bogg and he sent me various texts on the bank holiday Monday when the garage was closed to ensure I was ok. As I was going back to work on the Tuesday, Steve said he would collect my car the next morning for me and have the car ready for me at the weekend. The garage is 14 miles from my house and Steve has said he will drop Buttercup off for me tomorrow to save me going backwards and forwards. I just thing praise is due to for spending the time to discuss the issue with me on a bank holiday, the offer to collect and drop off the car to save me some aggravation and to make sure the car was ready for my trip to Scotland.

All sorted and now with tiggs

Simon, they have changed to a straight inlet for the back of the tank now in the kit. I didnt like this so bought a right angled replacement off eBay. Mike

Adam, You'll need to be around the Sprint & Hillclimb paddocks a fair bit more to "get" the scene. Terry is comparing Westfields to other 7 cars. What is not talked about much on this site is that our top competitors are just that, the top guys in the UK nationally. They don;t get beaten by anyone in the Kit and Specialist car classes and often beat a lot of single seater cars as well. Also whilst competing in the WSCC Speed Series they will be competing at the same venues in other Championships, often another 2 or 3. So need to be on the best rubber that is available in the class on the day. It's not like the racing I think you are comparing it to. The other very big change is that in racing there are loads of rules restricting what you can do. In Sprints and Hillclimbs there are far less rules especially once you get into Mod Prod. That's part of the attraction to many there are some amazing cars out there, how about a Mini with Mitsubishi EVO running gear or a spaceframe turbo BDA with a turbo that is kept spooled up using a helicopter gas turbine It's an amazing sport often breaking new technical ground.

If you are going to run on cheap 1A tyres many cars will find it difficult to use the power they have in their engines due to a lack of grip! So the people who have invested in upgrades and powerful engines and gearboxes will suffer and will have wasted their money? They will not be happy bunnies Why not just have a controlled car? Same chassis, same suspension, same gearbox, same engine etc etc.......oh I might just as well buy a Cateringvan At the moment the debate is not about a Controlled Road Going Tyre it is about only being able to use 1A tyres!!

Thanks to Terry and Nick for bringing this to our attention. Having stolen David's homework to a fair extent I have opted for the following; 'Dear Madam/Sir, By way of introduction, I hold competition license number 232875 and I am a member of the Westfield Sports Car Club (WSCC), which is affiliated to the MSA. I have been a regular competitor in speed events since 2010, using a road-going kit car. I write to you in relation to the proposal (https://www.msauk.org/assets/speedevents-15april2015shcactionsheet-forconsultation.pdf) to prevent the use of tyres from L List 1B for road-going cars in speed competitions from 1/1/2017 on the grounds of ‘nationwide harmonisation and cost for what is seen as the entry category’. I would like to state my objection to the proposal on the following grounds: Cost The removal of access to L List 1B tyres will have (at least) the following cost implications; 1. I will be obliged to purchase a new set of tyres in order to compete, irrespective of the fact that the tyres I use during the 2016 season will still have ‘life’ in them. 2. It is likely that I will be obliged to purchase a new set of wheels as L List 1A tyres for my current 13” wheels may be unavailable. 3. Having purchased new wheels and tyres, the ‘set up’ of the car will need to be re-assessed/modified which may require the purchase of professional services. If I wish to retain current levels of acceleration rates, cornering speeds and deceleration rates I will be obliged to purchase slick tyres and, in all likelihood, make further (costly) modifications to my car to avoid associated issues, e.g. convert to a dry sump. In summary, this revised regulation will definitely increase my costs for 2017, possibly by as much as £1000 if I choose to adopt L List 1A tyres and probably more if I choose to adopt slicks. This appears to undermine second of the two stated objectives of the change, particularly given that costs are often a critical consideration for entry level motorsport. Should I choose to make this investment it will reduce the extent of my participation in the sport for the year, which will have a (small) negative impact on clubs and venues. My investment in other equipment and professional services may also be reduced. If this approach is adopted by other competitors the impact could become significant. Harmonisation During my experience of five years of speed competition across the UK, I have never knowingly encountered a fellow competitor using L List 1A tyres. As such, there seems to be limited/no need for harmonisation, which undermines the first of the two stated objectives of the change. Enjoyment of the sport A significant proportion of my enjoyment of the sport relates to experiencing (in a competitive context) acceleration rates, cornering speeds and deceleration rates at levels that could never be safely/legally achieved on the road. The removal of access to L List 1B tyres with higher levels of grip will reduce the extent of my enjoyment as acceleration rates, cornering speeds and deceleration rates will be reduced. If the proposal has arisen for reasons beyond '‘nationwide harmonisation and cost for what is seen as the entry category’ I respectfully request that these reasons be stated within an revised proposal and the consultation period extended accordingly. I am very appreciative of effective, professional way in which the MSA manages my sport of choice. I also recognise the value of the opportunity to contribute to the debate in relation to regulations. Before today, I have never felt the need to object to a proposal; I hope that this goes some way to demonstrating the strength of my view on this topic. Regards, Simon'

I'm just over 800 miles at the mo!

Count me in. Let me know where near congleton you want to meet. Hmm, I wonder if Ian wants to come. By the end of this the car will have clocked up 1000 miles

OK How about this ... Dear Sirs Thank you for the opportunity to comment on the proposal (https://www.msauk.or...onsultation.pdf) to withdraw the use of tyres from L List 1B for road-going cars in speed competition from 2017 on "cost and harmonisation" grounds. I hold Competition Licence No.xxx and am a member of an affiliated club - Westfield Sports Car Club. I DO NOT agree with this proposal and specifically the view that it will reduce cost. The classification of standard and performance road going tyres is an important and widely used approach to differentiating classes. Perhaps most importantly within our club, we find that we are most able to attract new entrants to the sport, if they can compete in their car with minimal change. If their car is fitted with performance tyres because they like to occasionally also use on track or enthusiastically on the road, buying a set of 1a tyres and very possibly wheels also, is a barrier that I feel will put off many. I am aware that most of the present 1b tyres will be impacted by the Regulation EC No 661/2009 but it is my expectation that tyre manufacturers will develop equivalent replacements to cater for the trackday and performance car market. I respectively request that you review the proposed rule change.

Same place, same time suggests latest plain clothes Plod Mobile LOL...

Does anybody have a C20XE engine they are looking to sell. We are in the middle of a rebuild of my race car engine, and we may need a new bottom end, or worst case to have a spare in the workshop for the future.

email sent. Perhaps SS committee should also send email this to all SS competitors, as many are not regulars on here.

FWIW, having not read this thread, I have sent the following to the MSA: Dear Sirs As background, I hold Competition Licence No.181463 and am a member of affiliated clubs: Borough 19 Motor Club, Westfield Sports Car Club, and RAFMSA. I have competed in sprints regularly since 2004 in road-going kit-cars (Striker and Westfield with 1600cc car derived engines). I refer to the proposal (https://www.msauk.org/assets/speedevents-15april2015shcactionsheet-forconsultation.pdf) to outlaw the use of tyres from L List 1B for road-going cars in speed competition from 2017 on "cost and harmonisation" grounds. With regard to "harmonisation", I must know personally at least a hundred competitors running kit cars in road-going classes, and cannot think of a single one currently using List 1A tyres. As kits almost always compete only against other "kits and replicas", it is difficult to envisage with whom it is intended we be "harmonised". On cost, each of these competitors (assuming they remain such) is going to have to "invest" in a new set of tyres for 2017 (many can make a set of List 1B tyres last two or three seasons). Also there will undoubtedly then be a "performance war" as in the past when it suddenly became received wisdom that the Scudo Stunner was the grippiest tyre available in List 1A. Many competitors will find themselves "reinvesting" if they think they have made the incorrect initial choice. Worse still, almost all competition oriented road-going kit cars run on 13" wheels -- for which there is a dearth of List 1A rubber available. Many competitors will therefore find themselves having to buy a new set of 15" wheels -- adding weight (unsprung at that) to their cars. Whilst most will run lower profile tyres on 15" wheels to avoid having to change differential ratios, that fact might well require set-up adjustments. Once again, it is difficult to imagine that anyone will feel that their motor sport has been rendered cheaper. If there is an unstated fuel economy argument with regard to the mandated use of "less sticky" tyres, it should be remembered that most speed competitors will cover no more than 200 miles on track in a season -- meaning that any difference is de minimis. Lastly, the main point missed is that amateur motor sport competitors pursue their hobby because it is fun. I don't think many kit-car competitors will be found who think that driving such a car on 1A tyres is comparable in enjoyment to having 1Bs. Some, me probably included, may simply seek their enjoyment elsewhere. I think that you will be able to tell that I do not support the proposition, and hope you will rethink. With regards

Normal times...... eating from 7 till 8pm, banter discussions for the remainder. Remember we are in the downstairs room now......

As much as I'd always want to go faster and faster each year, I'd be pretty much as happy going 3-4s a lap slower on other tyres, providing everyone else was in the same boat and target times were reset for every class, not only those with tyre regulation changes. So for one year everyone would get a maximum of 100 points for a win, then from the second year we're back to normal chasing target times in every class, just with road classes chasing slower times than they used to be. Could less grippy tyres actually be a good thing to slightly level the playing field somewhat for those with less powerful engines compared to others in their class? Obviously on tracks with long straights the power will still tell, but on shorter and more twisty tracks it could come down to car setup and driver skill a little more rather than the number of horses being deployed. Dare I say it, could 'control' tyres ever be a way to go for WSCC classes? As in basically every type of circuit racing. That would put us at a disadvantage compared to other clubs and regional championships though when it comes to their target times, depending on the make/model/compound of the control tyre; a price worth paying if we ended up with a set of tyres that last a year easily and only cost £250 a set for example? Possibly my fifth edit of this post now... I'd argue that if people are upset about going slower in absolute terms, despite it being a level playing field in a class with new road-going tyre regs, then they should probably bolt a set of slicks on and go in to the unlimited classes. (yep, I have seriously considered it myself as I'm one of 'those' who might actually not come to terms with going so much slower than the slick shod boys)

Personally I think Davids post raises a good point on power/spend/grip I dont object to proposal. just scrap records and start again- 100 points at all events until we have records The tyres are cheaper as well and last forever

http://forum.wscc.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic/111978-list-1c-tyres/ previous thread Being controversial .... if everyone (road legal) was back on effectively 1A does it help neutralise the trend to spending more and more on high power engines. I think lots of records are also being impacted by the removal of tyre warming. Look at BHC times for Gurston last weekend. Most were struggling to get 64ft times under 2.1 seconds I don't have a strong view one way or the other but would need more information to understand the reasons for the rule changes. Anyone close to the tyre industry have all the facts?

I am a massive Marvel film fan boy so I find this hysterical. If you know the Avengers characters, take a peek. https://youtu.be/OOQnk-hRVuc I would pay good money to experince Gwynth Paltrow's "fart kiss"..!

I know mate, me either. I didn't believe it myself at first, but when I bought my T1Rs (from JJC) and took the wheels up to the place I normally use, the fitter said to me "this is weird, normally we refuse to fit tyres not bought from us". I think the reason they did it was because I asked the question when the reception area was full of customers AND the fact i've been taking my barge there for years. It doesn't seem like a very wise business move, more a futile attempt to harm the online tyre traders.

Sex

I think Dave is up near (ish) me in County Durham, but not sure which bit!

Yuk! More Yuk! Horrid! I'd rather drink water than that lot.

Sorbet

Granted, but i'd be more inclined to trust a car owned by someone who'd taken the time to get to know it at least. But it's all speculation, it could purely be a poorly presented classified ad.