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Well said Ian, thank you. Having returned from a good sleep but still with last night's headache, I agree that Stu's point is a valid one and think Ian's follow-on excellent. There is a fine but distinct line between moderation and censorship. Stu's post might not be exactly what some people wanted to read, but it was written in a very reasonable, measured manner that encouraged thought rather than sought to inflame. Absolutely no reason to moderate any part of it, and definitely no reason to censor it in my opinion. None of us are saints or infallible, and Mandela was no different. How he became a person of understanding, equality for all and reconciliation as age imparted wisdom is inspiring, but we all have to make mistakes before we learn to see all sides of a situation. It's always seemed unfair to me that if you gain wisdom and serenity, you're usually too old and lacking the energy of youth in most cases to really make a difference. Mandela was an exception to that and thank goodness he was.

Whilst I admit that it was self-presentation, I think the substance and style of NM's famous Rivonia Trial Statement from the Dock (http://www.anc.org.za/show.php?id=3430) is a rational, internally coherent, and therefore probably an honest self-assessment of the man, his background, and the situation of his country at the time. It's worth a read. -- Oh, and I think there is sufficient doubt about the history to make all the views expressed in this thread, providing honestly held, legitimate. Mandela himself was open that he was no saint. It is however notable that, at "Rivonia", he was sentenced to life imprisonment (rather than death). Notwithstanding his profile, that sentence was way out of line with the prevailing policy on black people convicted of murder. -- The committee/moderators are censors of libel, defamatory and personally offensive statements, obscenities, etc; we are not censors of freedom of speech. I think the rest of the thread demonstrates that the detractors are rather in the minority. -- Having spent time in RSA, both before and after its democratization, I find myself very much with the majority.

Well, I was waiting for this - done quite a lot of racing (probably 15x 20 min races, or more) and a lot of track days (20+) in the last few years, and I've finally hit something relatively solid. Bit of a 'one step forward and two steps back' scenario - got engine and gearbox back in the car last week, car was running sweet, but managed to overcook it a bit and scrub the armco after the exit to Cascades... We're both fine but my passenger says he now has a bit of a stiff neck, sorry Adam! 'Enjoy'!

I have changed my set-up again so have the idler pulley kit for sale. It's off the car ready to post. http://www.raceline....60&CategoryID=4

At least you are ok both of you -

Hi all for what it's worth I think this is getting a little out of hand. I am torn with Mandela as I can see the benefit of his later life to South Africa and I feel the system in SA prior to the fight was absolutely unacceptable. I am no historian and feel there is good and bad in us all. As has been said before the history books are written by the victors and now is a time to celebrate the life of a man who made or facilitated great change. As I live in Northern Ireland it is another situation where you have to draw the line I what is seen as acceptable. Today's terrorist is tomorrow's force for change. Stu's point is valid but in today's world we as the population decide who are Heros and who are Villans. Do the end results justify the means? Let's not fall out but remember all the victims of conflict to bring a better world for us and our children to grow up in I think the committee do an excellent job and all of us have the right to say what we feel without persecution or backlash.

Good luck with the sale Chris, great proven car, too cheap imho but we won't start that debate again.. Very good ad btw Rich