nikpro Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 Brake pipe needs re-routing I'm sorry to say - too much unsuported length from MC to chassis - try running it up the chassis diagonal to the top chassis rail or straight back to the bulkhead and fixing it to the aluminium panel with 'P' clips. The front to rear probably needs working on to tidy it up as well. (Don't use a 'rivet' style clip through the aluminium floorpan use a 'P' clip - much neater & stronger - the heel of your foot will damage that mounting in no time): The Solid brake lines are very difficult to do neatly and require some considerable time/thought spent on them. It is worth it whilst access is good - I always think the neatness and planning of someones brake lines is a good indication of the quality of the build. You should be using the same rivets to hold the 'P' clips for the fuel lines and the aluminium panels to the chassis - not extra rivets for the 'P' clips as well. 'P' Clips can also be doubled up so one rivet will hold two clips. Don't rush - enjoy the build. ; if this is your first build more time should be spent planning each stage than actually doing - fellow members love showing off their cars - go and view as many as you can before you 'tackle' each stage of the build - this will give you ideas of what does and doesn't work and good solutions to problems - it's what makes these cars so much fun! If you really can't get the solid lines right have some made up in braided hose - expensive but compared to the overal cost of the build worth it to make it look professional. Why are there 3 Fuel Lines - am I missing something obvious? Enjoy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dommo Posted October 13, 2011 Author Share Posted October 13, 2011 Brake pipe needs re-routing I'm sorry to say - too much unsuported length from MC to chassis - try running it up the chassis diagonal to the top chassis rail or straight back to the bulkhead and fixing it to the aluminium panel with 'P' clips.The front to rear probably needs working on to tidy it up as well. (Don't use a 'rivet' style clip through the aluminium floorpan use a 'P' clip - much neater & stronger - the heel of your foot will damage that mounting in no time): The Solid brake lines are very difficult to do neatly and require some considerable time/thought spent on them. It is worth it whilst access is good - I always think the neatness and planning of someones brake lines is a good indication of the quality of the build. You should be using the same rivets to hold the 'P' clips for the fuel lines and the aluminium panels to the chassis - not extra rivets for the 'P' clips as well. 'P' Clips can also be doubled up so one rivet will hold two clips. Don't rush - enjoy the build. ; if this is your first build more time should be spent planning each stage than actually doing - fellow members love showing off their cars - go and view as many as you can before you 'tackle' each stage of the build - this will give you ideas of what does and doesn't work and good solutions to problems - it's what makes these cars so much fun! If you really can't get the solid lines right have some made up in braided hose - expensive but compared to the overal cost of the build worth it to make it look professional. Why are there 3 Fuel Lines - am I missing something obvious? Enjoy. Ta, that thought had crossed my mind, but couldn't find any specific support spacing in the IVA manual. The build manual specified this route, but that's not to say I blindly followed it all the time. When I did that with the first front-rear brake pipe it wasn't long enough! Brake pipe is only cheap of course so I may well visit it again. Again. Maybe with stronger stuff, it's a pain to get straight. I didn't use any p clips on the brake pipe because I couldn't keep it away from touching the chassis/floor with them. I presumed rubbing against something solid would be dangerous. I tried to keep them away from my feet, the first is near the pedal mountings, the other is down to the side. I'll do some tweaking tonight and rethink that front pipe, see what I come up with. Third fuel line is for the carbon canister on MX5 SDV cars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mooch Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 Nice to see the new pictures, Dommo, going well. The 'GRP' footwell panel is the right one, although its just 'P' in reality. I must admit, I wondered why the graining effect was on the tunnel side when it's the other side that is theoterically visible...its not an issue as you can't really see it when its finished. I trimmed the lower corners out to make it sit squarely on the chassis and hit the gaps with loads of silicone. One observation - when you come to drop the engine and gearbox in, it gets tight. I see that you have some of the fuel lines fitted outboard of the footwell edge. This might cause problems. I had to move mine inboard so they were all under the floor panel so they didn't foul the lump as it went in - I think it was the drivers side aft of the hoop that was the main issue for me. It's easier to move them now than when the chassis is the right way up. Might be as simple as turning the P clips to face the other way. I routed my brake pipe out of the master in a similar way in that I didn't use the route under the master with that really tight bend, but I routed the pipe along the chassis round diagonal member - The way yours goes, it looks like quite a long gap until the first clip. Mine was a little more than 150mm to the first clip and Mr IVA didn't say anything, but you might want to think about re-routing onto the diagonal chassis member to keep him happy. Now....back to the garage, Sir! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nikpro Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 Third fuel line is for the carbon canister on MX5 SDV cars. Can carbon canister just not be left out - its only there for fuel vapour emissions which aren't tested? (We do on the race cars) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleggy the Spyder Man Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 hi chap - brake pipe you can either buy in straight lengths or wound up in a roll if you can find lengths long enough buy it straight and then fix the straight bits before then bending the remainder along the route required if you cannot get straight lengths long enough, cut a piece roughly to length from the roll and straighten by hand using a flat surface to roll it along / you will be able to get nice straight lengths with some time spent then follow the above must admit I would be looking to have another go by the way don't feel hard done by if you get some criticism along the way / the guys in here are often right and going back and starting a part of the build is often going to save time in the end - if you want to see u-turns and re-do's go check out my Spyder build Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dommo Posted October 14, 2011 Author Share Posted October 14, 2011 Third fuel line is for the carbon canister on MX5 SDV cars. Can carbon canister just not be left out - its only there for fuel vapour emissions which aren't tested? (We do on the race cars) I'm sure it's there for the IVA purposes. Naturally, I'll be ditching it once that's done and dusted. I don't know how the none IVA cars deal with fuel vapour emissions mind, so whether it really is a must have...? Better safe than sorry! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dommo Posted October 14, 2011 Author Share Posted October 14, 2011 hi chap - brake pipe you can either buy in straight lengths or wound up in a roll if you can find lengths long enough buy it straight and then fix the straight bits before then bending the remainder along the route required if you cannot get straight lengths long enough, cut a piece roughly to length from the roll and straighten by hand using a flat surface to roll it along / you will be able to get nice straight lengths with some time spent then follow the above must admit I would be looking to have another go by the way don't feel hard done by if you get some criticism along the way / the guys in here are often right and going back and starting a part of the build is often going to save time in the end - if you want to see u-turns and re-do's go check out my Spyder build It came in a roll and I 'unwound' it as I went, which I probably wouldn't have done if I knew how it'd end up. Brake pipe's only cheap though, and time isn't pressing, so I'll definitely redo the front pipe. I'll remove the rear pipe and see if I can improve it before committing to remaking that one. I don't feel hard done by at all, quite welcome it all! Otherwise I'd be turning up to the IVA man for a definite fail If the guys on here potentially save me a retest, that's the membership paid for for quite a while... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mooch Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 hi chap - brake pipe you can either buy in straight lengths or wound up in a roll if you can find lengths long enough buy it straight and then fix the straight bits before then bending the remainder along the route required if you cannot get straight lengths long enough, cut a piece roughly to length from the roll and straighten by hand using a flat surface to roll it along / you will be able to get nice straight lengths with some time spent then follow the above must admit I would be looking to have another go by the way don't feel hard done by if you get some criticism along the way / the guys in here are often right and going back and starting a part of the build is often going to save time in the end - if you want to see u-turns and re-do's go check out my Spyder build It came in a roll and I 'unwound' it as I went, which I probably wouldn't have done if I knew how it'd end up. Brake pipe's only cheap though, and time isn't pressing, so I'll definitely redo the front pipe. I'll remove the rear pipe and see if I can improve it before committing to remaking that one. I don't feel hard done by at all, quite welcome it all! Otherwise I'd be turning up to the IVA man for a definite fail If the guys on here potentially save me a retest, that's the membership paid for for quite a while... Good on you, Dommo, that's a good attitude you've got there. Couldn't agree more. I reckon these pipes were the hardest bit to do right in the whole thing, and sorting out a problem once the build is done would be a complete PITA. Sorting it out now will certainly save time and money in the long run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nikpro Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 Third fuel line is for the carbon canister on MX5 SDV cars. Can carbon canister just not be left out - its only there for fuel vapour emissions which aren't tested? (We do on the race cars) I'm sure it's there for the IVA purposes. Naturally, I'll be ditching it once that's done and dusted. I don't know how the none IVA cars deal with fuel vapour emissions mind, so whether it really is a must have...? Better safe than sorry! I'd check with Mazda SDV guys - i'm 99% certain the carbon canister isn't required for the IVA and this would simplify your pipe routes. Cleggy's suggestion of rolling the pipe on a flat surface is excellent and is exactly how I do it - after unwinding it very carefully from the coil. Always cut your longest runs from the coil first as it needs less straightening. (P.S. Cleggy's spyder re-build is looking excellent). Anyway.... Keep going - the build stage is great fun if heartbreaking at times - but it's a really good excuse to go and visit other WSCC members and kick the tyres of their creations to see how they have solved problems - it's all worth it in the end and in no time you will be able to return the favour to the next builder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark (smokey mow) Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 I'd check with Mazda SDV guys - i'm 99% certain the carbon canister isn't required for the IVA and this would simplify your pipe routes. It's not needed and wont affect the emissions test at all. I binned mine soon after SVA as all it seemed to do was dump fuel on the chassis rail destroying the powder coat. Just be sure to leave all the wiring connected though otherwise it'll show a fault code on the ecu. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nikpro Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 I'd check with Mazda SDV guys - i'm 99% certain the carbon canister isn't required for the IVA and this would simplify your pipe routes. It's not needed and wont affect the emissions test at all. I binned mine soon after SVA as all it seemed to do was dump fuel on the chassis rail destroying the powder coat. Just be sure to leave all the wiring connected though otherwise it'll show a fault code on the ecu. Cheers Mark, thanks for clearing that up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dommo Posted October 18, 2011 Author Share Posted October 18, 2011 Had a look at it last night, and came up with a plan of attack: The front pipe I'll redo, going from the mastery cylinder, underneath itself across to the round diagonal and down to the original route from there. There is a bit of chassis between the master cylinder and the diagonal which I'll try and use for support if it doesn't make the bends too viscous. Master cylinder bend will still be quite tight but not overly so. The dreaded front-rear pipe I'll remove and clean up. I think if I straighten out the little 'ripples' off the car and then replace most of those funky clips with p-clips it should tidy it up. Otherwise, I'm reasonably happy with the route of that one. In the meantime, I took the opportunity to paint all the welds with POR-15 to cover any bits the powdercoating didn't get to, as photo'd ages ago! That was my token effort and being productive. To leave as little poking through the floor as possible, I might rivet the front-rear pipe upside down, leaving the smooth part of the rivet inside the car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nikpro Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 Had a look at it last night, and came up with a plan of attack: The front pipe I'll redo, going from the mastery cylinder, underneath itself across to the round diagonal and down to the original route from there. There is a bit of chassis between the master cylinder and the diagonal which I'll try and use for support if it doesn't make the bends too viscous. Master cylinder bend will still be quite tight but not overly so. The dreaded front-rear pipe I'll remove and clean up. I think if I straighten out the little 'ripples' off the car and then replace most of those funky clips with p-clips it should tidy it up. Otherwise, I'm reasonably happy with the route of that one. In the meantime, I took the opportunity to paint all the welds with POR-15 to cover any bits the powdercoating didn't get to, as photo'd ages ago! That was my token effort and being productive. To leave as little poking through the floor as possible, I might rivet the front-rear pipe upside down, leaving the smooth part of the rivet inside the car. It will be worth it in the end - the satisfaction you will get on your first drive will be immense - especially if you know you have built it the best you can and there are no 'little niggles' lying underneath. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dommo Posted October 18, 2011 Author Share Posted October 18, 2011 Here we go, round two (maybe three). Redid the front pipe this evening, spent plenty of time on it, no rushing. Lots of fitting, removing, tweaking, fitting, removing, tweaking, crying etc. Ended up with this: I also managed to find the right size bolts for the brake master cylinder so took the opportunity to swap them over. Front-rear pipe tomorrow. Not looking forward to it, but be happy when it's done and dusted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Colonial Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 Freaked me out until I realised the frame is upside down! I wondered how you were going to fill it with fluid. Jeez I'm tired... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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