stu999 Posted December 24, 2002 Share Posted December 24, 2002 Excellent. Shame it wasnt completed by Chrimbo Have a good one mate. P.s. can you get Stella over in Uncle Sam? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CateringVan Posted December 24, 2002 Share Posted December 24, 2002 Hi Nick Pargeter - Dont let these pictures put you off a 7, just make sure you get one with a decent rollbar or fit one as soon as you get a car. Also make sure it has 4-point or even 6-point harnesses, having ridden in a 7 with inertia reel belts theres no way I want to do it again because they just dont give you the same degree of security or protection. Obviously I'm biased and think you should get a Cater-ham but no matter what you get you will enjoy it (unless its a Robin Hood). Theres nothing like the feeling of being part of the car rather than just sitting in it. To add to the comments above, there is a degree of risk in everything we do. Just walking along the pavement can be dangerous when Max Power in his Nova or Mr p******** Businessman in his 7-series BMW comes along. We all have to take the degree of risk we are prepared to take into account when selecting whatever we do. I regularly cycle and consider that to be more dangerous than driving my Caterhum because closing speeds with traffic are higher and theres no protection around me at all. I too have small children and have no desire whatsoever to get myself wiped out, but Bob has unfortunately proved theres no guarantee you'll be any better off in a sporty tintop either. Dont forget that in any 7-type car you are surrounded by a steel frame (I assume the Westfield chassis rails go just under the top of the sills in the same way that they do on a Caterhum) and this will give you some degree of protection in the event of a crash, plus the rear wheels will help a little in side impacts and a spare (if you have one) will help in the event of a rear-end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Stanton Posted December 24, 2002 Share Posted December 24, 2002 Am I over reacting? errmmmm yep. You are assuming the broken roll bar was caused by a roll - your assumption of an accident photo - without all the facts Now that is a frightening thing to do. Was it a side roll ?? Did he hit something else ?? How fast was the car travelling ?? Road conditions ?? day or night ?? Was a pedestrian or animal involved ?? Did the driver black-out ?? How many other questions can be asked ? How many assumptions are we all going to make from one photo - Until the true facts are known and perhaps details of any legal investigation into the matter - Assumptions are not helping anyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickpargeter Posted December 24, 2002 Share Posted December 24, 2002 Mark, with respect none of the facts matter. The point is the car went over and the rollbar flattended, period. To everyone else I think you are making fair points and very reasoned arguements. This is interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickpargeter Posted December 24, 2002 Share Posted December 24, 2002 Blimey, just looked at the c******m picture. Now thats more reassuring and how the westfield bar should have performed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Stanton Posted December 24, 2002 Share Posted December 24, 2002 Mark, with respect none of the facts matter Nick the choice is yours and how you reach your decision is up to you - Good Luck with your C a t e r h a m or whatever you choose, I'm sure you will have many hours/days of fun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterrosey Posted December 24, 2002 Share Posted December 24, 2002 I've read all the points raised with interest, but one thing that isn't fair is to compare the stock Westfield roll bar with the FIA c******m one - you're not comparing like with like. It's not fair to single out Westfield against c******m (or any other L7 maker) in this way. You wouldn't compare the safety of Richard Burns' 206 WRC car with a regular 206, now would you?! The bottom line is that no Lotus 7 replica is going to be as safe as a steel-bodied car, but then no ordinary road car is as much fun as a Westfield to drive. And compared to a superbike - which I view as the only other 'standard' road going vehicle of comparable performance - they're loads safer. With three-inch harnesses, race seats, FIA roll bar and my crash helmet on (normal driving attire due to the aeroscreen), I feel pretty safe in mine. It all depends on where your priorities lie - for maximum speed, driver appeal and raw exhilleration there is absolutely no other road going car that you can buy that offers as much as a Westie for the money (XTR and Radical excepted - but they're only just road-going). I don't want to be responsible for putting anyone off buying a Westie, but if safety is your main concern then a Westie - or any other Lotus 7 replica - may not be for you. To my mind though, there is absolutely nothing to beat the sheer buzz you get from driving a Westfield - even at slow speeds - you feel much more connected with your surroundings and far more aware of road surfaces, noises and even smells. Driving a tin-top - however fast it is - becomes mundane by comparison. If you want a car that will make you feel alive in a way that no other vehicle can, it has to be a Westie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick M Posted December 24, 2002 Share Posted December 24, 2002 Have a good one mate. P.s. can you get Stella over in Uncle Sam? Cheers ! And you ! And no you can't get Stella Tortoise over here x loads !! "Red Cross" parcels containing said cans of life-saving elixir can, however, be posted to..... Incidentally, for the benefit of any Merkins reading this, a tortoise is a tortoise !! It is *NOT* a "turtle" !! They live in the sea and have flipper things. Oh, and while I'm at it, "erbs" has an "H" at the beginning of it and I'd be really grateful if you'd bear that in mind and pronounce it properly Anyway, back to the thread..... Blimey, just looked at the c******m picture. Now thats more reassuring and how the westfield bar should have performed Indeed, and see my comments above about the Westfield RAC bar which should perform in a similar manner. Not sure anyone has actually put one to the test though which, when you think about it, says quite a lot in itself !! On a purely argumentative point , if none of the facts matter then you must presumably be making a decision based on hearsay, opinions or assumptions. Surely that's more dangerous than considering the cold, hard facts, i.e. X thousand Westfields in existance and people can only show you a picture of *one* car that has rolled over ??!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickpargeter Posted December 24, 2002 Share Posted December 24, 2002 Don't get me wrong, I'm not comparing a c******m to a westfield I am only using that as a reference point for the RAC roll bar and how much safer that should make the car, be it c******m or westfield. Personally I prefer the westfield as I want the extra room the wide body gives. Looks like I'll have to think long and hard about this one. But thanks for all the contructive comments everyone I must say that I am impressed how open minded you have all been, I had expected loads of replies telling me not to be such a whimp! Merry Xmas to you all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick M Posted December 24, 2002 Share Posted December 24, 2002 I'm not comparing a c******m to a westfield I am only using that as a reference point for the RAC roll bar and how much safer that should make the car, be it c******m or westfield Don't worry, I think we realised that. The c******m has clearly stood up to the abuse much better with it's FIA roll-bar. Personally I'm surprised Westfield continue with the standard rollbar. I genuinely don't see the point of continuing to sell something which they know is cosmetic in standard form but which can have quite a major bearing on how the car stands up to an accident, even one where there is no inversion. The rear struts of the RAC bar would also seem to offer some rear protection in the event that the car is shunted from behind (or reverses into a ditch, through a hedge, etc.). Anyway, happy deliberating I don't think anyone here would accuse you of being a wimp because we've all been through this thought process ourselves at some stage. I fitted an RAC bar immediately after seeing those pictures of the squashed standard one and I know quite a few others did the same. Hopefully I'll never have cause to use it, but better safe than sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Green Posted December 24, 2002 Share Posted December 24, 2002 Hi Nickpargeter Please don’t think my thread was posted through gritted teeth with dribble oozing at the corner of my lips. I guess what I am trying to say, along with other members is we all try to make the car as safe as possible. But like anything in life, the unexpected cannot be quantified. I don’t know whether you have spent quality time in a Westfield to get the ultimate driving experience, but by virtue of the fact you are receiving answers to the question means there is an argument for driving a Westfield with a standard roll over bar but of course there is always better. Finally, I would like to wish you and your family a Merry Christmas and a Prosperous New Year. With kind regards Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamie Posted December 24, 2002 Share Posted December 24, 2002 dont youjust buy what you think is right for you and can afford? i own a second hand one from mr nick milton and i have never once about its safety. but then you sit in you car with a 40 ton lorry eather side of you and you can read the tyre size you **** your self then they cant see you in your bath tub size car! so a rac roll bar wont help you there i will fit a better bar next year only becuse of racing it next year. all the best to you all for christmas jamie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CateringVan Posted December 24, 2002 Share Posted December 24, 2002 One thing to remember when comparing the caterhum to the Westfield ones is that the standard caterhum one isnt reckoned to be particularly good either, to the extent that some trackdays (including those organised by the L7 Club) wont allow entry with the standard bar fitted. It puzzles me why both Caterhum and Westfield dont supply an FIA / RAC spec bar as standard although I've heard that it may be something to do with the rear visibility of an FIA bar being poorer and thus causing SVA problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobM Posted December 26, 2002 Share Posted December 26, 2002 It puzzles me why both Caterhum and Westfield dont supply an FIA / RAC spec bar as standard although I've heard that it may be something to do with the rear visibility of an FIA bar being poorer and thus causing SVA problems. I don't think it's that - just took my MegaBlade through SVA with the RAC roll bar and the only attention the inspectors paid to the bar was making sure I'd covered the sharp edges. I suspect it's down to cost, which is a bit sad really when you look at the difference in price as a fraction of the whole package. Another possibility is that they think the cars look better without a big clunky scaffolding structure at the back. Or perhaps they're worried that speccing big clunky roll bars draws peoples' attention to the risk ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickpargeter Posted December 31, 2002 Share Posted December 31, 2002 Thanks for all the comments lads. Looks like its an RAC bar for me then when I find the right car Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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