Mark Stanton Posted August 5, 2008 Share Posted August 5, 2008 I believe it's end of 2009... Nope it's end of 2008 unless its a motorcycle engined car,where it will be compulsory... are you sure When I asked question direct to MSA in Nov 2007 it was based purely on chassis age and not what type of engine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barney Posted August 5, 2008 Share Posted August 5, 2008 when we talked to the msa at the autosport bec`s were going to have a cat regardless of year. i contacted john symes at the msa today with an email for clarification stating my chassis was pre 99. below is his reply.. Good Afternoon Whether or not the engine is a motorcycle engine or not the regulation applies. Whilst this is so as your car predates 01/01/2000 it is exempt from the regulation. Regards John Symes Technical Director This e-mail is confidential. If you are not the addressee or authorised recipient, any distribution, copying, publication or use of this information for any purpose is prohibited. Please notify the sender immediately and then delete this message. Ce message est confidentiel. Si vous n'êtes pas le destinataire désigné de ce message ou une personne autorisée à l'utiliser, toute distribution, copie, publication ou usage à quelques fins que ce soit des informations contenues dans ce message sont interdits. Merci d'informer immediatément l'expéditeur et d'ensuite détruire ce message. ******************************************************************* Internet communications are not secure and therefore MSA does not accept legal responsibility for the contents of this message. Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of MSA. ******************************************************************* Please note both incoming and outgoing telephone calls may be recorded for training and monitoring purposes. ******************************************************************* THE ROYAL AUTOMOBILE CLUB MOTOR SPORTS ASSOCIATION LIMITED MOTOR SPORTS HOUSE, RIVERSIDE PARK, COLNBROOK, SL3 0HG, ENGLAND TEL: 01753 765000 FAX: 01753 682938 WEB: WWW.MSAUK.ORG REGISTERED OFFICE AS ABOVE. REGISTERED NUMBER 1344829 ENGLAND Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cidersurfer Posted August 5, 2008 Share Posted August 5, 2008 I believe it's end of 2009... Nope it's end of 2008 Mark I think we're both wrong or right depending upon interpretation... Race Suit regs (Proposed changes for consultation) date of implementation 01 Jan 2009 but FIA 1986 standard (which my suit is) no longer eligible from 01/01/2010 as P49 of Motorsportsnow! Summer 2008. Helmet regs (Ratified) date of implementation 1 Jan 2010. BS 6658 85 Type A (which my helmet is) is withdrawn as an acceptable standard as P45 of Motorsportsnow! Spring 2008. Getting a bit complicated innit! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a4gom Posted August 5, 2008 Share Posted August 5, 2008 Whether or not the engine is a motorcycle engine or not the regulation applies. Whilst this is so as your car predates 01/01/2000 it is exempt from the regulation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Stanton Posted August 5, 2008 Share Posted August 5, 2008 Barney So comments rec'd in Nov 2007 and pasted on page 1 still stand There'll be a lot of 1999 chassis QUOTE Following a telephone call to the MSA on 5 November this was a verbal reply to questions raised. E-mails were issued on 6 November - please note no written response has been received from the MSA "Exhaust catalytic converters must be fitted to all petrol engined production based saloon, touring and sports cars, including specialist production and kit cars manufactured after 31 December 1999." Championships first registered prior to 31 December 2007 do not require the above ruling to be a mandatory requirement until 1 January 2009 Correct For new championships established 2008, this ruling will be mandatory for 2008. Correct Where kit cars are specifically concerned: e.g. Westfield, Caterham, Locost, Raw Striker, Genesis, MK, Donkevoort etc Does the term "manufactured" refer to the date of manufacture of the chassis and not that of the overall completion by the independent self builder or it's SVA, date of registration and/or MOT test where road-going. ? The word manufactured refers to the original date of the manufacture of the chassis. Will it be mandatory for kit cars manufactured post 31 December 1999 to have a catalytic converter fitted regardless of age of engine, which may be pre 1999 and not designed for use with a catalytic converter. ? Yes, it will - in that instance a catalytic converter is mandatory Where kit cars are manufactured prior to 31 December 1999 but use an engine of a later date the use of a catalytic converter is not mandatory. ? Correct - in that instance a catalytic converter is not mandatory Where a catalytic converter is mandatory, this is to be applied to all road-going kit cars whether they be Q plated or year plated. ? (Please note that Q plated vehicles are subject to a visible smoke test only when undergoing an MOT) Correct regardless of MOT and road legislation a catalytic converter is mandatory for motorsport use at MSA licensed events. Use of a catalytic converter is mandatory, subject to age of manufacture, when a motorbike engine fitment is used for the car build. ? Correct - a catalytic converter is mandatory whatever petrol engine fitment. Is the rule 12.16.7 applicable to both road-going and modified non-road-going classes of kit car ? Yes The use of catalytic converters is to be checked and "policed" by the scrutineers of the meeting, which may from time to time be supplemented with the use of specialist certificated gas analysing equipment with trained operatives ? This is the intention The ruling 12.16.7 is applicable to all forms of sprinting, hill climbing and circuit racing. ? Yes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barney Posted August 5, 2008 Share Posted August 5, 2008 yes mark, my apologies for creating any confusion...when i talked to the msa @ autosport,i was led to believe that would be the case for bec regardless of age.. at least we now know where we stand...having an old car has some merits...lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Everall Posted August 5, 2008 Share Posted August 5, 2008 Better check the age of my chassis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Stanton Posted August 5, 2008 Share Posted August 5, 2008 The Duratec Sport 2000 there's a clue in it's name not just cc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Everall Posted August 5, 2008 Share Posted August 5, 2008 Not sure i can fit a CAT to engine and complex management system Class H could lose another competitor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Stanton Posted August 5, 2008 Share Posted August 5, 2008 I'm sure there's enough room to weld a "cat can" of some description onto your exhaust before the silencer ............ that is if unless you double check your chassis plate and find out its a late 1999 Best thing with this is to get on and sort out whatever way you choose to resolve it - everyone knows how to "interpret" rules and this is the right time to do it rather than discuss, because one thing is certain .......... the cat rule ain't gonna change Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Everall Posted August 5, 2008 Share Posted August 5, 2008 Do the changes for CAT and fuel break apply if I run in Sports Libre? and fit a wing front and rear like Del? really cant be arsed with these stupid costly "improvements" Going to check chassis! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Stanton Posted August 5, 2008 Share Posted August 5, 2008 Fuel break is not mandatory ................. see my verbal reply from MSA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenandmean Posted August 5, 2008 Share Posted August 5, 2008 Your all lucky you get the Motorsports Now since telling the MSA to stick their clerks licence and despite having a competition licence I haven't see a copy all year. That'll teach me for not clerking any more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark.anson Posted August 5, 2008 Author Share Posted August 5, 2008 Well I think the whole rule flys in the face of fair competition! No one really knows how the CATs will affect performance but It still has the potential to disadvantage one competitor an not the other. In class G for example, I have an old 1995 engine but a 2002 chassis, whereas Barney has a newer engine but older chassis, and is therefore exempt. I will have to fit a CAt and therefore add weight to the car! The whole things is b*****ks!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottish Bloke Posted August 5, 2008 Share Posted August 5, 2008 Well I think the whole rule flys in the face of fair competition! No one really knows how the CATs will affect performance but It still has the potential to disadvantage one competitor an not the other. In class G for example, I have an old 1995 engine but a 2002 chassis, whereas Barney has a newer engine but older chassis, and is therefore exempt. I will have to fit a CAt and therefore add weight to the car! The whole things is b*****ks!! Get the purple throbber back out!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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