MSA magazine

[mark.anson]

I found it somewhat er....amusing that the latest Motorsport Now mag from the MSA carried an article on hints and tips on how to save money in these hard times.

In the very same issue they also had an item explaining that I will have to fit a CAT into my exhaust system next year which will probably add at least £500 to my  budget for next year. !!!  

[windy]

Still trying to get my head round the category definitions. There's lots of stuff in there for rule changes on Sprint & Hillclimbing.

Something tells me there isn't going to be many newcomers to the sport, especially if you are going to need FIA overalls & a catalyst.

£600 - £1K to get started  

[John Loudon - Sponsorship Liaison]

Will CATs still be required on post 1999 vehicles which run carbs?

[mark.anson]

Will CATs still be required on post 1999 vehicles which run carbs?

As I understand it yes they will. But then again????

[mark.anson]

Something tells me there isn't going to be many newcomers to the sport, especially if you are going to need FIA overalls & a catalyst.

£600 - £1K to get started  

This was sort of my point.  Ive not dont a lot of events this year but those I have, I get the impression that numbers are down. There have certainly a few events that have struggled to get entries, and im sure its down to economics.

Added costs in club motorsort is the last thing the clubs need.

 

[cidersurfer]

I'll need a new helmet and overalls for the 2010 season by the look of it due to changes in the regs, that's before changes to the car...

[Mark Stanton]

In the very same issue they also had an item explaining that I will have to fit a CAT into my exhaust system next year which will probably add at least £500 to my  budget for next year. !!!

If you recall this was something that the SS raised quite a while back         an e-mail shot was sent out asking for as many folks as possible to send in correspondence to MSA    

If you guys that have any Q's on this matter a quick search will answer most, if not all

Will CATs still be required on post 1999 vehicles which run carbs?

yes, cobblers isn't    

Let's just say this cat rule is a load of   the MSA cannot even test for a genuine cat fitment       and I think quite a few cars will have "dummy cans" welded in that simply look like cats      

WSCC sent off correspondence to MSA in November 2007 on this matter

and yes the MSA does seem to be making matters costly.

Any of you guys looked at the fuel line dry break set-up needed for sampling          

[Mark Stanton]

Following a telephone call to the MSA on 5 November this was a verabl reply to questions raised.

E-mails were issued on 6 November - please note no written response has been received from the MSA        

"Exhaust catalytic converters must be fitted to all petrol engined production based saloon, touring and sports cars, including specialist production and kit cars manufactured after 31 December 1999."

Championships first registered prior to 31 December 2007 do not require the above ruling to be a mandatory requirement until 1 January 2009

Correct

For new championships established 2008, this ruling will be mandatory for 2008.

Correct

Where kit cars are specifically concerned: e.g. Westfield, Caterham, Locost, Raw Striker, Genesis, MK, Donkevoort etc

Does the term "manufactured" refer to the date of manufacture of the chassis and not that of the overall completion by the independent self builder or it's SVA, date of registration and/or MOT test where road-going. ?  

The word manufactured refers to the original date of the manufacture of the chassis.

Will it be mandatory for kit cars manufactured post 31 December 1999 to have a catalytic converter fitted regardless of age of engine, which may be pre 1999 and not designed for use with a catalytic converter. ?  

Yes, it will - in that instance a catalytic converter is mandatory

Where kit cars are manufactured prior to 31 December 1999 but use an engine of a later date the use of a catalytic converter is not mandatory. ?

Correct - in that instance a catalytic converter is not mandatory

Where a catalytic converter is mandatory, this is to be applied to all road-going kit cars whether they be Q plated or year plated. ? (Please note that Q plated vehicles are subject to a visible smoke test only when undergoing an MOT)  

Correct regardless of MOT and road legislation a catalytic converter is mandatory for motorsport use at MSA licensed events.

Use of a catalytic converter is mandatory, subject to age of manufacture, when a motorbike engine fitment is used for the car build. ?

Correct - a catalytic converter is mandatory whatever petrol engine fitment.

Is the rule 12.16.7 applicable to both road-going and modified non-road-going classes of kit car ?

Yes

The use of catalytic converters is to be checked and "policed" by the scrutineers of the meeting, which may from time to time be supplemented with the use of specialist certificated gas analysing equipment with trained operatives ?  

This is the intention

The ruling 12.16.7 is applicable to all forms of sprinting, hill climbing and circuit racing. ?  

Yes

[barney]

mark found on another5 forum

QUOTE

Dear John,

Re: Fuel sampling valves

Thank you for your letter of the 3rd June concerning the above.

Please be aware that the proposal has again been modified by the Motor Sports Council such that the requirement is only applicable to British and MSA Championships.

YS

For the MSA

John Symes

Technical & Risk Control Manager

A small victory for common sense!

QUOTE

You may indeed be running in a MSA or British Championship but here is the complete list ... these are championship run by the MSA I believe.

http://www.msauk.org/site/wbs/news/L...a7&chapter=313

Essentially it will have 'MSA' or 'British' in the championship name.... most of us here are 'club' racers an so need not worry anymore.

discuss..???see the msa have got their act together then.....

[RobC]

I have been watching this for sometime now... with the upgrades I have been doing its been in the back of my mind that this is something else I need to consider... however a relative newbie to this after a single showing in 2007 at a local event... I am at a cross roads as to weather this is really worth it...

If I am to go Cat. and do events next year with the car I need to be certain that this is worth the extra... and if so get it on the car before the new engine is in and then get it RR now rather than doing it twice...

Thing is I enjoy the car at track day level, but with the weather at this years events I was planning on attending.. i am questioning (like many others) if throwing more money at a fair weather day car is really the way to go over a hot tuned tin top...

Thankfully its only a cat I need to consider... my suit and helmet are all covered, which is a good thing other wise it would have been an even easier decision...

This is of course a hot topic that ain't gonna go away, and sadly something we're gonna have to swallow... if we are to continue in the sport... which is of course Rubbish

Rant over

[Nick Algar - Competition Secretary]

As Mark has already said, both he and I have raised our concerns with the MSA on these rules. At least common sense prevailed with the Dry break and I think the only one affected is ME    But at least I don't need a CAT, unlike a few of you guys.

In Sept  / Oct I will re-write the beginners guide to encompass all the rule changes, and try and make it clear what is and is not needed.

Also check Demon Tweaks for CAT's they are doing high flow ones for £ 204 + VAT. I am sure there will be other suppliers trying to sort this "problem" out.

Nick

[Delboy]

I am negotiating a Bulk buy for Sports cats at the moment.  Prices should be about £140 + vat

I will post as soon as I have more information

Delboy

[fordy]

So form time to time there going to test with gas analysers - that wont take long will it !!!!!  As engines and cats need to be warm to test - The only way i can see this happening, is if they do a random test on a handful of cars at an event.  And if you run carbs on a cat - your screwed unless they are exceptionally well setup, as unburnt fuel kills cats.

Wipe out club motorsport, and we'll all go on trackdays where we dont need cats, and will do 10 times as many laps - nice one for the environment!!!

[Guest]

So what do we think is the easiest way to fit a cat?  Like many people, i have a custom manifold and can, so it's awkward.  I might be able to squeeze a thin one in-between, but it would need to be about 4" max.  Is this possible, or do we all have to start re-designing our systems?

I suppose i'd better read my MSA mag!!

[Asterix]

QUOTE

Will it be mandatory for kit cars manufactured post 31 December 1999 to have a catalytic converter fitted regardless of age of engine, which may be pre 1999 and not designed for use with a catalytic converter. ?  

Yes, it will - in that instance a catalytic converter is mandatory

Where kit cars are manufactured prior to 31 December 1999 but use an engine of a later date the use of a catalytic converter is not mandatory. ?

Correct - in that instance a catalytic converter is not mandatory

Maybe I'm turning into a GOM, but no matter how many times I read that it still makes me wince with resignation.