Discount on hold for club members

[RobC]

After following this most of the day.. I think people are reading possibly too much into it.... Julian has not said anything about devaluing cars due to them having non factory supplied parts used...

Possibly a suck it and see what happens over the next few weeks in the run up to the show... where he said it was possibly going to be introduced.

Reading what Julian did say I think it is a good idea... Although I did build my own car in the end, would have found this interesting when I first started looking into getting a westy, but don't feel threatened by the factory wanting to re-affirm new buyers with confidence that they are not been taken for a ride somehow...

Just my two penneth for what its worth

[Darkspeed]

Personally speaking, if you were a UK based citizen, you would be hearing from my lawyer to answer a case of defamation.

   

   

The begining of the end of open discussion and expression... very sad to see

[Club Chairman (Reserve)]

Mr Laverda - I can assure you that I have my own personal opinion on the matter of "certification of cars" - which I will not post on this forum as I do not believe it is relevant.

However I find your accusations that any WSCC committee member has ever used their position for personal gain from Westfield Sports Cars Ltd. (either past or current management) totally abhorent and personally offensive - if you have any evidence to substantiate your claims then please post it.

You seem intent to use this forum to pursue your own personal issues.

The WSCC and WSC Ltd have and will always function independantly and not dictate on how each other conducts its business - anyone that knows any committee member knows this has always been the way.

Your public apology would be very much appreciated to all WSCC committee team members within 24 hours.

I have also received PM's requesting for your posting rights to be removed, which I would fully concur, if it is your intent to continue with your personal defamatory comments.

I wish you were a U.K resident in order that this matter may be resolved in a proper and correct manner.

[mb893]

can't seem to read

Oh I can read, (your concern was touching though)...

I just need the words from the Factory put in an order that makes sense and allays my concerns, which so far they haven't...

A number of these concerns are (in no specific order):

(1) Who and how are they qualified

(2) Where and would most of these 'inspections' be professionally organised or just a 'turn up an see' effort at shows, or indeed a long drive up to the Factory

(3) Cost/frequency of 'inspection'

(4) Why, when the data should be with the Factory anyway if it's just a database effort - my car's data should be on record with them

(5) What would be done and how invasive would it be

(6) Would there be a difference in the 'certification' between a Kit and Factory build and therefore an implied quality issue

(7) When would this start and how long is the projected time target to cover those that could want this done

Edited to add:

However I find your accusations that any WSCC committee member has ever used their position for personal gain from Westfield Sports Cars Ltd. (either past or current management) totally abhorent and personally offensive

As do I... Not good at all.

[Julian Turner - Westfield Sportscars Ltd]

Spares will always be available through us and the dealer network.  Our aim is to become a one stop shop for you.

For example, we are now a Brian James trailer distributors and have proceeded to sort other similiar agreements to make it easier for you to purchase through us (Garmin products, Mtrack, etc) rather than driving round the country collecting your purchases we can arrange to have everything here when you collect.

While i understand many of your frustrations with the Westfield factory, we are trying to improve things.  I understand the perception many of you may have, but i want to assure you that we are taking small steps on very firm ground to alter that perception.  This may take time but you can rest assured we want to always look after our existing customers.

[MAT1800]

The begining of the end of open discussion and expression... very sad to see

Well at the risk of getting burnt    

IMO, Any society which wants the right of free speech has to exercise self moderation and control. The free speech banner cannot be used as an excuse for saying or posting anything you so wish.

On the certificate issue, I agree with RobC, initally I think this may be agood idea, but whatever my views, I think we all need to see what actually happens rather than speculating what might, so far we have little actual information about how exactly this will be implemented.  

[rgs_laverda]

Even if, as I discovered, the factory build standards are abysmal, as "The Factory" they can do no wrong.

Is this fact, or just your usual belligerence? I suspect it is not fact as you haven't seen any other chassis apart from yours. There is no way the statement you make can be true as you haven't inspected anything like a big enough sample of work to make that accusation. No one has denied that you have an issue with your chassis, but to state in public that this is an accurate reflection of ALL factory work is massively wide of the mark. I have already asked you to refrain from making any further comment on the subject of your chassis, and you seem to have read, yet failed to understand that request as witnessed by this blatant hijack of an unrelated thread about discounts. So I will give you a choice. Withdraw that wholly inaccurate statement quoted above within 24 hours by editing your post (and I will edit this one to remove it as well) or you will lose your posting rights until further notice. If you can't voluntarilly abide by a request made by a Club official, then I will enforce it.

I have inspected only 3 Westfield XI chassis: S/N 136 of the 1980's build, s/n 058 and s/n 056 of the new builds. In 4 days I will be inspecting another chassis from the new build series I do not have the s/n at this time.

 You are correct: an indictement of ALL factory workmanship is indeed wide of the mark. I had intended that my comments reflect ONLY upon the sheet metal installation and I regret if I have given the impression that the other aspects of the factory build were sub-standard. I will edit my remarks regarding this to reflect my intent, and I apologise for this error.

[MAT1800]

For example, we are now a Brian James trailer distributors

 

I was just looking at those today....  

Any chance of a discount then?  

     

[Darkspeed]

Well at the risk of getting burnt    

IMO, Any society which wants the right of free speech has to exercise self moderation and control. The free speech banner cannot be used as an excuse for saying or posting anything you so wish.

Absolutely but it should also be painfully clear from recent issues on another similar forum that these sorts of heavyhanded responses can spiral oput of control to nobodies benefit and a more level headed approach will extract a far better result for all involved.

 

I just cant see the benefit for me in having the UNOFFICIAL - (keep you hat in its box I dont need another reminder   ) widthdrawn whatever the intentions - which I can't personally fathom.

[Darkspeed]

Any chance of a discount then?  

     

Priceless      

[Lurksalot]

I don't know if it is relveant but , when I bought my car I was very concerned that I was buying a car ,and not just a couple of boxes of bits bolted together.

I looked at a number of cars, some better than others and thus decided I would have a better chance of maintaining and upgrading the car if it were relatively standard and therefore chose a factory built car.

Having been a member of the club and lurked for a while , I have seen some superb examples of members cars that would have had my money , but at the moment, the one I have ticks the right boxes .

I am sure that a lot of potential car buyers also need the confidence that the car is in not a box of bits ,and with great respect he may not want to wait to find out .

A car that the factory can say has named  parts and is a good example will give potential purchasers confidence in the brand .

Upgraditus obviously comes as standard and it is not until you have had ownership that a lot of the subtlety of the various upgrades becomes relevant.

I think that any factory involvement that will give potential buyers the confidence in buying second hand kit cars must be a good thing for all of us.

 

[Julian Turner - Westfield Sportscars Ltd]

I can assure you that i have stopped all discounts for everyone regardless of status or friendship.  

This is to put in place an agreement accross the world that details a certain percentage for all dealers (they all get the same so there is a level playing field).

I am currently in discussions with both the WSCC committee and the WRDA with regard to discount, if we decide there is to be one, this will also be the same across the world

Both Potenza and Westfield do not DO deals, we are professional business men and women with unquestionable integrity.  Our vision and values in both companies, which we have all signed upto, detail our code of ethics and working practices.  If anyone steps outside of these then they are fully aware of the consequences.  

I will not accept the statement made regarding the WSCC members benefitting personally from the factory, i believe this to be untrue.  

If you have proof of this happening i will act accordingly and the matter will be dealt with by myself and the other Potenza Board Members

[rgs_laverda]

I never thought that a discount was a given right I presumed every penny discount I got was because I had earned it with the work I do with the factory and the relationship I had formed with them.

Barry, it sounds like you are almost an employee: provide a service & get a discount. You have to EARN your discount by working with the factory and forming a relationship with them. That is great for you as a private citizen, but doesn't that put the club administration in an awkward position?

   The discounts are given for services rendered as per your post above: but the WSCC is an independent organisation, should any WSCC staff be recieving a payment of any kind from the factory? Even an indirect payment such as this discount for UK WSCC members? Should the WSCC be providing a service TO the factory to earn a discount for it's members or does that eventually end up compromising the integrity of the organisation?

  How can the public be sure that decisions taken are not affected by the desire to maintain a positive relationship with the factory. But are instead of benefit to the owners and builders first and the factory second. An owners club should be an advocacy group for the owners, not a buffer between the owners and the factory, not an arm of the factory PR department.

 There are many advantages to being as close as possible to the factory and the people who work there, but there can also be problems as well. It is very hard to be critical of those you know well and like personally, even harder to not give your friends "the benefit of the doubt" when issues arise. Who's feelings does one care most about hurting, ones mates down at Westfield, or some stranger who posts on the WSCC Boardroom with an awkward question?

The club administration are not in an awkward position as we do not have any say in how Westfield Sportscars run their business. I have no idea how discounts are awarded.

To suggest that there may be collusion or "rewards" offered by the Factory to the WSCC Committee in exchange for services rendered is ABSOLUTELY FALSE.  The suggestion that I or any of my colleagues would accept pecuniary advantage as a result of our positions as a Club officials is extremely offensive, and I expect you to apologise to the WSCC Committee on this thread. Personally speaking, if you were a UK based citizen, you would be hearing from my lawyer to answer a case of defamation. For the record, The WSCC is run by volunteers and I can assure you that we do not accept payment OF ANY KIND from ANYBODY in return for our efforts.

Personally speaking, I have been Secretary of the WSCC for about 6 or 7 years. In that time, my total spend at Westfield Sportscars Ltd has been about £80, and I *NEVER* ask for discount. I pay what is requested and I have *NEVER* mentioned my position to any of the staff when I made the two purchases (a battery tray and a set of wiper blades). I even use a different shipping address to the one published on the Contacts page so that a connection may not be made between my name and my position, and I am happy to provide supporting evidence.

I never stated that any club officer recieved a financial reward from the factory. I was responding to a post in which a member used the word "earn" in the context of discounts. As I said, it is fine for this person to earn a discount as was stated in his post, but I do not think the exact same arrangement would be acceptable for an officer of an owners club. The officers should make every effort to avoid even the appearance of favorable treatment even if it should mean foregoing an offer of a discount on parts if that discount is not given to each and every member automatically. That just seems like fair play to me.

  I see that you have done an excellent job of keeping your role here separate from your role as an owner. You are to be commended for going above and beyond, and I offer my apologies for indirectly impunging your integrity or that of any other WSCC officer.  It was the original poster who defined the arrangement as one of discounts earned for service and relationships, and I never thought to question his take on things. That was a mistake for which I again apologise, I should have asked for clarification before making an assumption based on 1 single post.

   I wanted to call attention to a situation that COULD cause a conflict of interest, not one that HAD caused such a conflict. Nowhere have I done more than ask questions about the appropriateness of a very close relationship with the factory and warn of the obvious dangers of having too close a connection.

[oioi]

I think what is clear from all this is that the WSSC discount with the factory - official or not is GONE.

and once more I will repeat *puts chairmans hat on* - The WSCC have never had an agreed structured discount scheme in operation with the previous factory management, any discounts offered have been on an ad hoc basis agreed personally  

in my experience ive bought a few bits and bobs over the years and often asked (politely) for a discount for a club member and been turned down.

I was surprised by this thread, as in my experience Westfield Sportscars have not had in the last 3 years a formal members discount scheme.

I always ask for a discount on whatever I buy, as they say round these parts, "shy bairns get nowt".  I tried with wunoff (speed series sponsor) and got nowt.  I tried with catmotorsport (speed series sponsor) and got nowt.  I tried at habitat and got 20% of a new bed (they didnt ask for my wscc membership number tho).

[Mark Stanton]

Mike - any chance you could negotiate a bulk buy on beds please I could do with 2 kingsize, 1 double and 2 singles please                 and a sofa bed