Discount on hold for club members

[Barry Ashcroft]

I'll cert it for you John if you pay me airfare

[JohnCh]

Okay Barry, but you need to bring the Stella

[AR1961]

I'm with Mr Beeland. Thanks for the explanation Julian and Factory Certification is a great idea!  

[Bazzer]

I think its a daft idea.

What about cars like Barry's and mine ? I assume we would not get certification because we dont use self tappers to hold panels on like factory cars !!!

What about if somthing fails on a certified car ? Westfield said it was OK so it must be there fault ?

I assume there will be a charge for certification ?

A report on a car is only useful on the day it is done !!!

Bazzer

Edited to add surely this is designed so that only factory supplied parts are fitted to increase Westfield profits rather than anything else.

[jak]

Factory Certification is a great idea!  

Why? Surely like an MOT it's only valid at the time it was done. After that who knows what the quality will be like.

[marshalla]

How often would you need to get your car "re-approved" ? After every mod. ? Or would it be a one-off thing that would be completely meaningless within 6 months because you started upgrading ? Who would be liable if a car was declared "approved" and then turned out to have had major changes since the approval date ?

dangerous territory for a kit/component car company IMHO. Unless, of course, this is the first step on a road to fully built cars only...

[Bazzer]

I think its a daft idea.

What about cars like Barry's and mine ? I assume we would not get certification because we dont use self tappers to hold panels on like factory cars !!!

What about if somthing fails on a certified car ? Westfield said it was OK so it must be there fault ?

I assume there will be a charge for certification ?

A report on a car is only useful on the day it is done !!!

Bazzer

Edited to add surely this is designed so that only factory supplied parts are fitted to increase Westfield profits rather than anything else.

...Will someone pass Bazzer some sugar please??...........He seems to have a bitter taste in his mouth this morning    

Nah not bitter I just think people are just trying to turn kit cars into somthing they are not. If you buy a car someone has built in their shed its buyer beware.

It used to be only anoraks like me and lots of others on here built and owned them. Now because of the perceived performance per pound of kit cars, people who would have bought an Impreza and got it serviced at the local dealer are buying them. They couldn’t point to differential if you asked them and are worried about getting stiffed.

Caterham have always had this market sewn up, but the down side to this is that most of the cars are the same. Looks like Westfield want a piece of this action as well.

I just don’t see it being of any value to a lot of existing owners. In fact all it means is if I was to build another one to the spec I would want it would cost more money than a standard one and be worth less because its not a standard one.

All obviously IMHO

Bazzer

[mb893]

I think its a daft idea.

I tend to agree... My car uses components that are in many cases better than those on Factory cars and so were not supplied by the factory, e.g. Materials for fixings, wheels, shocks/springs harness system, exhaust system to name but a very few.

When introducing this Donkervoort like certificate system great care must be taken by the Factory not to effectively devalue well built, engineering well thought out and safe cars that the Factory had no input to.

That these cars also use components supplied by reputable suppliers that are fit for purpose and are effectively upgrades of Factory items (but not supplied by them) should not mean the car as a whole is deemed ‘lesser’ than one that used standard Factory parts, this of course would be a nonsense.

Just because the Factory did not supply the part does NOT mean that part is not safe or fit for purpose... and anyway, who would decide and on what basis? Exhaustive scientific testing or just a "weeell, it's not ours is it, so it must be bad?" approach. I really would be interested in this.

Another 'issue' I see is that I live on the south coast... There is one ‘local’ show that the factory has in the past visited intermittently, the personnel stick to the stand like glue, (or so it seems), so just how is this going to work... effectively? How long would this ‘approval’ like process take (given its aim, it should take quite a while to do it correctly, so I can see logistical problems that will mitigate against it working on an ad hoc basis)?

On a personal note... Would I really trust someone that has had no experience of my car, has no real idea as to the development process that has gone into the car or indeed no idea as to the systems installed in it to 'judge it' after a cursory glance?... Nope, not really.

As a marketing ploy it may well work, but as I say… I can see some pretty big issues that could turn it ever so easily into a failure and cheese a lot of builder/owners off somewhat.

[CarlR]

QUOTE

If you buy a car someone has built in their shed its buyer beware.

At last, common sense prevails

[timd]

Westfield  provide a safe product for you to drive in a safe environment.  We have designed and thoroughly tested the parts we have made and worked with suppliers to ensure that this is mirrored throughout the supply chain.   That is why we personally test development vehicles prior to them going to production, putting them through hell and earth in order to simulate the worst possible operating conditions. If this is not done the weakest link fails every time. Fitting none tested or standard parts can mean this is the weakest link.  I have seen this on some of your vehicles and pointed it my concerns.

You're talking about the diff mounts in the chassis here presumably?    

Or do you mean steering arms falling off front cast uprights??  

[Paul M]

I tend to agree... My car uses components that are in many cases better than those on Factory cars and so were not supplied by the factory, That these cars also use components supplied by reputable suppliers that are fit for purpose and are effectively upgrades of Factory items (but not supplied by them) should not mean the car as a whole is deemed ‘lesser’ than one that used standard Factory parts, this of course would be a nonsense.

As a marketing ploy it may well work, but as I say… I can see some pretty big issues that could turn it ever so easily into a failure and cheese a lot of builder/owners off somewhat.

Have to agree with this, it just sounds like marketing spin to me, what the factory saying essentailly is that they are going to continue to charge full price for all parts because they can then put an "approved " sticker on our cars ( presumably if we take it to Kingswinford and pay for this service. My car ( and probably the vast majority of long term owners on here) has had so much standard Westfield stuff replaced to render this offer completely and utterley worthless.

Now that Julian Turner's had a visit to  the Catherham factory, is he going to vastly inflate all prices and start trading on the heritage ?

[gee_fin]

Edited to add surely this is designed so that only factory supplied parts are fitted to increase Westfield profits rather than anything else.

And that is spot on, on this the now diverted topic, for example, what happens if you use non factory approved AP brakes, say, Alcons or Wilwoods, would they pass? HiSpec? Standard reconditioned Cortina? Standard Cortina from a scrap heap? And then a week later you changed the pads for Greenstuff... As these items aren't factory approved, then presumably your car isn't factory approved, thus it loses the 'seal'?

Seems a very difficult area and certainly by no means a cast iron stamp of approval as it is so massively open to interpretation, each car is so completely indivudual, trying to form a 'caste' that they need to fit in seems bizarre.

[mb893]

QUOTE

I disagree, sometimes the quality of home built cars far outweighs that by 'professionals' or factories.

Agree in spades with that!

[Bazzer]

I disagree, sometimes the quality of home built cars far outweighs that by 'professionals' or factories.

Agree in spades with that!

I agree a lot of home built car are better than factory built cars. Mine and yours are  

Still would not mean I would buy one with out giving it a very good once over. I also would not trust a factory certificate either.

Bazzer

[CarlR]

QUOTE

If you buy a car someone has built in their shed its buyer beware.

At last, common sense prevails

I disagree, sometimes the quality of home built cars far outweighs that by 'professionals' or factories. There are many examples of this on the board and posters of such builds in this thread (of course, the reverse is true, this is the inherent nature of kit-cars).

Baz's point was that you need to approach each car individually and treat it based upon numerous factors rather than assume that the presentation of a sticker providing a quality marking meant that the car could be immediately considered "safe" or "fit for purpose". I was echoing that sentiment and at the same time not automatically assuming a home built vehicle (in a shed or otherwise) was any lesser than a factory built item.

However Julian's proposed direction automatically devalues a car not inspected which I am not happy with. It is a case on this type of car that you seek the relevant skills or qualifications of an engineer or the factory to inspect a vehicle which you propose to purchase. It is this point to which I feel common sense should apply.

Carl