Knightmare Posted July 12, 2006 Share Posted July 12, 2006 Ok, we're getting close to going off topic again here. Blatman, I'm not criticising your FAQ section although I think Morbius does have a point. This thread was about trying to improve residual values by generating awareness. One of the easiest ways to generate awareness is to make information readily and easily available, and by giving people a choice in how they get that information means you will get a greater audience. This is not just relating to the newbies section, a simple generic guide to owning/choosing a westfield is only one of a number of ideas. I am a new owner and personally speaking I would have found it useful. I'm off to lunch now but people who seem prepared to offer ideas seem to be in the minority here and at the end of the day a car is only worth what soeone is willing to pay for it. There are only so many ways in which owners can promote the brand and they need to be given the support and encouragement to do it otherwise nothing will change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rory's Dad Posted July 12, 2006 Share Posted July 12, 2006 A guide to buying a Westy would be useful - providing it was a collaborative effort. The "get yerself a VX" might be amusing for some as they "open a stella" but it's of precious use to many newbies. On one hand there is the comfort of a new car or kit from the factory and then on the other there is all the stuff here about megasquirts and mapping for example which just confuses me. Watching used prices come down just makes me more confused - do I spend £14k on a new but basic kit or half that in the cars for sale section??? I feel I'm being well looked after by the factory as a prospective purchaser (although Simon leaving is not good news) and IMO they are doing a good job selling 400+ cars/year (allegedly) and presumably making a profit. However I do feel at the moment that it feels like I'm buying an Alfa - great car but shocking residuals. Do I buy new or S/H?? I came into this wanting a manageable 'project' and I'll keep looking at it like that (if I can) so right now residuals are not an issue. I do feel however that just as many parts are sold here before they go on e-bay as a 'favour' to fellow members this is not the place to get the maximum price for your car ... Rory's Dad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatman Posted July 12, 2006 Share Posted July 12, 2006 QUOTE Especially if its really obvious at the first point of contact for newbies. And that is? Some folk get here directly, some via the homepage. Which one is the first point of contact for the majority? I doubt there is any way to tell. FAQ's really should be a first port of call. I certainly head off to teh FAQ of any new site I want info from. It seems obvious. Even a computer newbie will be familiar with the term FAQ as it is bandied about absolutely everywhere... As for the rest, I've said my piece. The direction we need to take is obvious to me. The steps we need to take are also pretty obvious when you look at the big picture. Sadly, many of you seem to be looking at it from a personal perspective, and not thinking about what the club as a body has already done, and is able to do, whilst avoiding the minefields of insurance issues, warranty issues, product liability issues etc, and then having to deal with every second person saying that the buyers guide isn't relevant to a car they want to sell/buy as it seriously underestimates how good their car is ('cos my car is above average, isn't it...). FWIW, I have often thought about writing a buyers guide for here (every time I see a "What do I look for" thread) and the mag. Trouble is, I don't know enough about the various specs, and then be able to include the common upgrades, to do it justice... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adhawkins Posted July 12, 2006 Share Posted July 12, 2006 Trouble is, I don't know enough about the various specs, and then be able to include the common upgrades, to do it justice... Blatman in shock 'I don't know everything' admission. Film at 11 Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatman Posted July 12, 2006 Share Posted July 12, 2006 I never claimed to be omniscient, people just assume I am. For omniscient substitute smart A*** if you so desire... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darthurs Posted July 12, 2006 Share Posted July 12, 2006 And that is? Some folk get here directly, some via the homepage. Which one is the first point of contact for the majority? I doubt there is any way to tell. There are ways to find out how a user navigates though your site. http://www.j-stats.com This is quite important as if the user leaves the site before getting to the boardroom then the FAQ's are pointless. The idea of having the top 10 FAQs within the main section of the website, but having a clear link to the boardroom should be a catch all. And my 2p worth, I have probably spent more building my SDV than a lot of the cars for sale are going for now. It's all down to build quality and quality of parts. Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatman Posted July 12, 2006 Share Posted July 12, 2006 QUOTE It's all down to build quality and quality of parts. In other words, condition (build quality) is everything? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darthurs Posted July 12, 2006 Share Posted July 12, 2006 It's all down to build quality and quality of parts. In other words, condition (build quality) is everything? No, sorry, not all. But in my opinion this factor would now be my main concern. When I was first looking, cost, quality and easy of build was. As I was young and didn't appreciate the "heritage" that Caterham have I was on a pretty level playing field and looked at all sorts of 7 type kits. Westfield was my final choice due to the price, help from the factory and from reading numerus build diaries I deiced I would be capable of building it myself. Resale value didn't really come into it at the time as my main interest was building a kit car. Now looking back if I was just after buying one to drive I would have been better off buying second hand. Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Update Posted July 12, 2006 Share Posted July 12, 2006 Because it seems we are loosing money on the Westy maybe better to invest in something more exclusive... " target="_blank">The Configurator If you want good money for your Westy start with a decent engine configuration including catalytic converter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markcoopers Posted July 12, 2006 Share Posted July 12, 2006 I'll write a guide Blatters, I did something a while ago for the mag, so I'll dig it out refresh it and submitt it to the committee for discussion before publishing on here and the mag again. As a general note to all of you, please be carefull with the comments about "The factory must get involved". They are, they read this and we do work with them, but how many of you actually have 100% factory parts only cars? If anyone wants to help the factory, then I'm sure they will be willing to listen, but please remember we are a club, they are the factory and not necesserily going to agree with each other on every subject. Want to help, go to the Westfield Live experiene, and show all the newbies what a club and heritage we have? This is a thread about us helping ourselves, so lets start with that and worry about others later. As already said, if you want to sell cars but maintain prices, then a bit more effort will be needed rather than a free advert on here listing spec. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chazpowerslide Posted July 12, 2006 Share Posted July 12, 2006 I think that in the 130 or so posts so far a fundimental aspect of the market has been missed. Up to maybe 5 or six years ago if you wanted a 7 you only really had the choice of Westfield or Caterham if you wanted the precieved pukka "7" look. IMHO most of the other manafacturers producing 7 type cars were pretty obscure being less well known than Westfield who were just slightly less well known Caterham who could hardly be classed as a mainstream volume producer and traded on "heritage" to fill a niche market. Than a bloke called Champion brought out a book, Mk 1 and 2 Escorts dissapeared from our scrap yards as did the front ends of all scrap Cortinas. Heritage on cheap and boy did we lap it up. Anybody who had ever opened the bonnet of a car thought they could build a pukka 7 for £250 (though few ever managed to acheive the £250 challenge) but could'nt manage it without a bit of help. Over night a whole support industry sprang up to help out the 7 builder and the manafacturers of and variations to the generic maque exploded (only being slightly hampered by SVA) and prospered. The result was that the 7 has become more popular than ever, the market is flooded with many many cars for sale with examples from the fabulous to the downright hideous from every marque at prices to suit every buyers pocket. The market is clearly saturated and has been for maybe two years or so, the manafactures have been busy fighting to the death for market share and have generally and gradually cut prices taking precieved "value" out of the generic 7 brand. (think of the Westfield SDV for exmple) There are simply too many sevens for sale at the present time and will be for a long time to come so what with the manafacturers knocking out ever cheaper kits (MX5 SDV anybody?) and a flooded market residual prices are diven down. I suspect that what will happen in the future is that as at present sellers will either have to drop the prices of the current cars for sale to a level that the buyers will pay for (afterall that's what this thread is about) or hang on for the "right" punter maybe indefinatly. Next we'll see another one or two manafactures go to the wall (remember Luago) and only then will the supply begin to dry up a little firming up the residual prices as fewer cars reach the market. Residuals wise the generic 7 has become a victim of it's own success, the market will re adjust it's self in time to a new level where prices will be inherently lower, there will allways be exceptions with individual cars and maybe one or two manafacturers but bumpy times are ahead and if they want to survive kit prices will come down. When you put your Westy up for sale it's not only compeating for a buyer with other Westies but every other 7 out there if indeed the owner has catagorically settled on a 7 in the first place, if he's undecieded and just fancys a "kit car" then the Westy is compeating just about every other kit on the market. We tend to think our potential buyers are looking for a Westy, I believe the buyer makes the descision to buy a generic 7 then looks at which one he wants based on taste and requirements. Inevitably the car he/she buys will radically different after 12 months of ownership as he/she develops it to what they "actually" want. Anybody who has owned a motorcycle in the last 12 years or so allready knows the story, the same thing happened to residual UK bike prices when the importers of so called "Grey Bikes" flooded the UK market with cheaper often identical spec euro equivlents of the "Official" UK models. Look how the cost of new bikes has fallen in the last 10 years or so. The best thing we can do as a club is continue to prompte our passion, grow our membership and develop our own culture (dare I say heritage) to st us appart from the rest of the mish mash that the 7 market has become. Just MHO. Chaz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Green Posted July 12, 2006 Share Posted July 12, 2006 I have only flash read this thread but thus far am losing the will to live. Therefore I apologise in advance to those I may offend. A car is a car no matter what it is, be it Westfield, Caterham, Bentley or whatever, it doesn’t matter. Any car looses value over a period of time no matter what. I purchased my car last year at a lot less than the original factory build cost and I am talking maybe 70% lower. So, I have a factory built car with all the bells and whistles for what you may think is a song. Would the owner have sold it for more? Only to someone who did not know what it was worth. A car sells for what the buyer wishes to pay and no more. There is no heritage in a Westfield so we cannot talk about the handbrake et al. What is the deal? If you choose to spend 1,000 hours in labour and millions on parts, why should you think the car is worth that much when the new owner could buy a “standard” Westfield cheaper with all the bits you have done. Your car is your life and you have enjoyed every moment of it, but to the prospective buyer, they don’t give a s**t. Think about it, it’s only a car. Sorry, but that’s how it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cast iron Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 A car is a car no matter what it is, be it Westfield, Caterham, Bentley or whatever, it doesn’t matter. Any car looses value over a period of time no matter what. b*****k in my mates garage there is an original DB4 in very good condition, it is currently appreciating at £10K/year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morbius Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 A car is a car no matter what it is, be it Westfield, Caterham, Bentley or whatever, it doesn’t matter. Any car looses value over a period of time no matter what. b*****k in my mates garage there is an original DB4 in very good condition, it is currently appreciating at £10K/year ...and therein lies the exception that proves the rule You could probably add Gullwing Mercs, and particular models of Ferrari, Porker, etc, but the general rule is that car prices go down, and the more of a particular model at a given quality there are about, the quicker the price will fall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Green Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 A car is a car no matter what it is, be it Westfield, Caterham, Bentley or whatever, it doesn’t matter. Any car looses value over a period of time no matter what. b*****k in my mates garage there is an original DB4 in very good condition, it is currently appreciating at £10K/year I really fail to correlate the difference between a hand built classic car made in the early 1960’s in Newport Pagnell, to which there is certainly not many left around the world, and a Westfield. Of course there are certain cars that appreciate but you can count them on Long John Silvers good leg. Or did you take it literally that I thought every car depreciates. I hope not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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