mallory aftermath

[Martin Keene]

Dear All,

Thank you so much for all your offers of generosity, it makes me proud to be a member of the WSCC.

To be honest I suggest you all keep your money, not that I don't need it or I'm too proud to accept it, but I'm not the first or last to loose a car. So i'll happily take a pint off you all when I see you at Harrogate kit car show or some other event.

For my part, I intend to keep this a private matter and will write to the committe. I would ask that we all respect this, but strongly urge anyone who was a witness to also write to the committee with what ever you saw to help them.

For the record, I will be attending other WSCC track days, and suggest to others that they are not put off by this very isolated event. Besides which I seam to remember a lot of smily faces and laughter in the paddock, so can't of been all that bad.

The club goes to great lengths to organise a whole range of events from shows to track days throughout the year, and needs your support in making them a success. What's the old addage, "you get out what you put in."  

What a star...

PS: I really will replace the header tank cap when you need it.

[nlash]

I think people exspect to much from the marshals , they are there for the event of an incident NOT policing the event .

Absolutely.

Driver common sense plays a huge part and we shouldn't even contemplate trying to get away with bad driving if the course officials seem to be missing certain aspects of safety. Just because the officials may have missed the odd piece of dangerous driving, and not produced a black flag or two, doesn't give drivers the right to continue driving in an unresponsible trackday manner.

There were rules about passing faster cars explained at the beginning of the day as I have mentioned in an earlier post. If drivers refuse to exercise these guidlines then they should look at themselves and not the marshalls.

[Chris Elworthy]

Dear All,

Thank you so much for all your offers of generosity, it makes me proud to be a member of the WSCC.

To be honest I suggest you all keep your money, not that I don't need it or I'm too proud to accept it, but I'm not the first or last to loose a car. So i'll happily take a pint off you all when I see you at Harrogate kit car show or some other event.

For my part, I intend to keep this a private matter and will write to the committe. I would ask that we all respect this, but strongly urge anyone who was a witness to also write to the committee with what ever you saw to help them.

For the record, I will be attending other WSCC track days, and suggest to others that they are not put off by this very isolated event. Besides which I seam to remember a lot of smily faces and laughter in the paddock, so can't of been all that bad.

The club goes to great lengths to organise a whole range of events from shows to track days throughout the year, and needs your support in making them a success. What's the old addage, "you get out what you put in."  

Mark, you are a Gentleman,

Surely we should let Mark have the last word on this.

[jak]

Dear All,

Thank you so much for all your offers of generosity, it makes me proud to be a member of the WSCC.

To be honest I suggest you all keep your money, not that I don't need it or I'm too proud to accept it, but I'm not the first or last to loose a car. So i'll happily take a pint off you all when I see you at Harrogate kit car show or some other event.

For my part, I intend to keep this a private matter and will write to the committe. I would ask that we all respect this, but strongly urge anyone who was a witness to also write to the committee with what ever you saw to help them.

For the record, I will be attending other WSCC track days, and suggest to others that they are not put off by this very isolated event. Besides which I seam to remember a lot of smily faces and laughter in the paddock, so can't of been all that bad.

The club goes to great lengths to organise a whole range of events from shows to track days throughout the year, and needs your support in making them a success. What's the old addage, "you get out what you put in."  

Mark, you're a star - I'll see you at Harrogate and there is a pint from me with your name on it   .

John

[kylemrushall]

I was planning to go on the WSCC Cadwell Park track day in September, but will not do so if I think the standard of driving is as  chazpowerslide repoted on page 2 of the other thread on this topic. He didn't want to name names, but these drivers need to be banned from future events unless they can explain their driving. This really is not what I expect from a WSCC track day. What shocked me most reading about this was the lack of black flagging. I've been black flagged before for spinning when trying to avoid a cone in the middle of the track. Never even dreamt of trying to block other drivers on fast bends, or some of the other antics chazpowerslide mentioned. But if I did I would expect to be sent home. There's something seriously wrong here that WSCC needs to sort out. I wont be going on a WSCC track day till it is.

I am a new member to WSCC and i hope no ono things im speaking out of turn but.....  I can only comment for what i saw at the day on and off the track.  I was in group b the group that the bad accident happened, I did not see it but it looked bad.  The two drivers must have been too close together (my opinion).  While on track in group b everyone was very careful and i had no experiences of bad driving at all.  Track days are dangerous but we all know the risks!!  To blame WSCC is ludicrous,  when people get behind the wheel of fast cars their egos get the better of them.  kyle

[Kaz]

Charlie Yorksboys posting on Kaz's computer.

Hi Mark,

Firstly I'm very glad you came out of this without injury. Secondly, as with Buzz, - any assistance needed in rebuilding the car etc, I'd gladly give.

Thirdly, you've impressed me greatly with the way in which you've dealt with this incident and it's a credit to you!

Fourthly, and generally, I love the club to bits and agree with others that any 'investigation' into what went wrong should be dealt with by club officials internally and with the parties involved. There is absolutely no point in people arguing about this on the boardroom which, as pointed out, is an open forum and can only result in people falling out and the club's image being tarnished.

Hope you make it up to Harrogate Mark and manage to stop over for a beer or two.

Charlie Yorksboys.

[Blatman]

Sorry Blatman, I don't think from what I have read/written that you even have one side of the story as you hav'nt spoken to Mark himself, you have second/third hand accounts.

Precisely like the vast majority of commentators. I however, am not pointing any fingers at the organisers, drivers, marshals, or anyone else. I am suggesting that we wait for any official remarks once *all* the facts are in. We *won't* get ALL the facts on here, no matter how hard we try. As for second/third hand accounts, I was there, and I will offer my side of events *only* when a club official tasked with identifying the problems asks for witnesses to step forward. Until then, what I may or may not know is no-ones business but mine. I *will not* be drawn in to a witch hunt based on speculation, hearsay, and the opinions of others who weren't actually at the event in question, but who still feel able to comment. By all means comment on general good practice, but do not pretend to have the anwers to questions you never heard...

I also resent the fact that you seem to imply that those that had issues did'nt have the balls to complain, It's a very contentious thing to do to go over to a fellow WSCC member and complain about their driving.

Depends how you do it. I have done it to others. Most of the time I do it well, although I have done it badly on at least one occasion. At least I am able to recognise what I'm doing though. If peopel approach other drivers still surrounded in red mist, then it's only gonna end one way. Again, as I have said before, discussion needs to be dispassionate.

As you were not driving I don't think you are in a position to comment on what was going on on the track either

Are you suggesting that the only people who will be qualified to judge the issues at hand and offer resolutions to them are the drivers? I don't think a group of people who have clearly demonstrated a willingness to ignore the advice of the experts at a safety briefing are in any way qualified to lead any such discussion. As nlash has said, the rules were clearly stated, and then roundly ignored. As I asked earlier, what happened to personal responsibility?

Oh and as for post event "whinging" how the hell do you seek to move things on and prevent re-occouring issues if you don't air you views and have a good discussion afterwoods.

Because you need to make your issues known to the Committee by emailing them, not through here. I have no doubt that the Committee will see this and investigate fully, but they absolutely cannot afford to try to condiser ALL the opinions on here. They need those *directly* involved to email them with their concerns so that they can be investigated and examined in a clear and impartial manner.

Trackdays for what its worth are about spirited driving in a safe and controled enviroment , that enviroment can only be controlled by the officials at the event , circuit staff will not usually interveen its not there job its the CLUBS job

I disagree to a point. Yes there should be rules. There were clear rules for this day. The drivers appear to have ignored them. There is *no way* the club or the TDO can legislate for people who simply refuse to observe good judgement on track. And at the end of the day, intervention may still not necessarilly have prevented any of the issues we are trying to understand. It is unfortunate, but it is human nature.

Finally for now, I also feel that we are blowing a handful of *possible* issues, and 1 actual problem out of all proportion. We all need to calm down and wait for some official comment. As I keep saying, we are way too far short of hard and fast *facts* in the majority of these cases highlighted. For all we know, the Mallory officials may well be planning to write to the committee with a report. I think we need to wait and see, and discuss the whys and the wherefors once we have the chance to see the facts in full, from everyone involved.

[deano.1]

Dear All,

Thank you so much for all your offers of generosity, it makes me proud to be a member of the WSCC.

To be honest I suggest you all keep your money, not that I don't need it or I'm too proud to accept it, but I'm not the first or last to loose a car. So i'll happily take a pint off you all when I see you at Harrogate kit car show or some other event.

For my part, I intend to keep this a private matter and will write to the committe. I would ask that we all respect this, but strongly urge anyone who was a witness to also write to the committee with what ever you saw to help them.

For the record, I will be attending other WSCC track days, and suggest to others that they are not put off by this very isolated event. Besides which I seam to remember a lot of smily faces and laughter in the paddock, so can't of been all that bad.

The club goes to great lengths to organise a whole range of events from shows to track days throughout the year, and needs your support in making them a success. What's the old addage, "you get out what you put in."  

Glad your ok Mark, i'll buy you a pint at the show no problem and Emma says i can donate a pair of pants to replace the ones you were wearing at the time! I told her you didn't normally like to wear them at WSCC events!

Keep your chin up mate, see ya soon

Regards Dean & Emma

[Guest]

I disagree to a point. Yes there should be rules. There were clear rules for this day. The drivers appear to have ignored them. There is *no way* the club or the TDO can legislate for people who simply refuse to observe good judgement on track. And at the end of the day, intervention may still not necessarilly have prevented any of the issues we are trying to understand. It is unfortunate, but it is human nature.

you see this is where some people don't understand the way things are run .

Who has the liability insurance ? WSCC do or a bl**** hope they do for every event .

Why ? because the buck stops with them in the event of serious injury or a fatality .

the only people who can deal with drivers ignoring rules is to police them rigerously , firstly with a warning secondly by sending someone home.

certain offences are a go straight home,some require a warning first.

I am not concerned at all about the whys and wherefores of the specific incident ,mearly saying that you can all say its nothing to do with WSCC until your blue in the face ,but the simple fact is the responsibility lies with them and they must be seen to take all the reasonable steps they can to ensure it .

[chazpowerslide]

I was not pointing the finger at anybody, I was offering my opinions upon the event and the way I felt about it.

I realise that I have been outspoken both on here and the other thread, some may think that was un-nessasary however I feel very strongly about what happened and felt it nessasary to air my opinions with those that cared to read.

Like I had said before I really care about the club, it's immage and it's members as a whole.

Anything that can be done to improove things for members via the club should be looked into and that includes track day saftey.

I have said all I am going to say on this and I certainly do not want to be drawn into "quote" and then comment argument (particularly as I have never worked out how to use the quote button   )

I respect the views an opinions of others that are contray to my own and I'll leave it at that.

Chaz.

[Blatman]

I disagree to a point. Yes there should be rules. There were clear rules for this day. The drivers appear to have ignored them. There is *no way* the club or the TDO can legislate for people who simply refuse to observe good judgement on track. And at the end of the day, intervention may still not necessarilly have prevented any of the issues we are trying to understand. It is unfortunate, but it is human nature.

you see this is where some people don't understand the way things are run .

Who has the liability insurance ? WSCC do or a bl**** hope they do for every event .

Why ? because the buck stops with them in the event of serious injury or a fatality .

the only people who can deal with drivers ignoring rules is to police them rigerously , firstly with a warning secondly by sending someone home.

certain offences are a go straight home,some require a warning first.

I am not concerned at all about the whys and wherefores of the specific incident ,mearly saying that you can all say its nothing to do with WSCC until your blue in the face ,but the simple fact is the responsibility lies with them and they must be seen to take all the reasonable steps they can to ensure it .

The Club *always* makes sure that the appropriate insurance is in place, trust me. It will have been in place for Mallory for sure. In fact, I'm sure that in accordance with good practice/due dilligence, Mallory Park Ltd would have wanted proof of insurance before the day started. I have had the misfortune of organising a track day or two in the past, and insurance was always No1 on the list.

And as I have tried to point out, whilst a bollocking may be in order, the session in question was, as far as I can tell, only the second session of the day for that group. If we assume that everyone behaved themselves in the first session for that group, then it really was unavoidable human error, and there is no suitable punishment 'cos both parties went home with damaged cars, bent pride and a sick feeling. The incident in question should have been a big enough wake up call for the rest of those drivers who maintain that they had problems later in the day. I certainly wouldn't have needed to have the point reinforced to me by a marshal. Maybe we just had a particularly bad bunch of people driving that day. It happens...

[stevio]

just read all the posts on this topic..... its all very unfortunate when incidents occur and cars get damaged, thankfully no one got hurt.     with all the 'banter' about who's done this wrong and who's done that wrong, I think the biggest point was bearly touched on...... of all the trackdays I've ever done, in the lotus or the subaru, I would never consider doing any of them without insurance.......... Is it just me, knowing no person was injured, or is most of the concern, post incident, now purly monetry..... if so then this is the time to look at your car and decide if its worth more than the fifty quid or so it costs for track cover... ??

Glad your ok mark

                 Steve.

[Guest]

well this is a well written account of the start of the day from another thread :

have thought long and hard about this post.

My son James and I have listened to trackday briefings at Hullavington twice /Basingbourne /Donnington 5 times  /Llandow and Cadwell in the last 9 months, completing just over 600 track day miles.

There has always been a clear emphasis on driving ettiquette. It is always emphasised several times in each briefing that overtaking is ONLY allowed on the left, NEVER IN BRAKING ZONES OR CORNERS, AND BY CONSENT ONLY. It is also emphasised that any infringement will be severly treated.

In the briefing that I attended at Mallory on Friday, the subject of overtaking was only mentioned as an afterthought at the end of the briefing. We were told that we could overtake on the left, and no mention was made of braking zones or bends. Both James and I commented that it was going to be a free for all and decided to keep out of trouble by driving at 7/10ths with both eyes on  the mirrors.

We managed an incident free day. It was sad that others did not, and I feel that this was as a direct result of the lack of emphasis in the briefing. Mr Smith commented several times both before and during the briefing that he was on his own and was waiting for other organising members to arrive. I feel that the lack of the support he expected may have had some influence, as he had to sign on all groups himself. Passengers did not sign on at all. I did offer to help but this was politely refused.

My sentiments concerning overtaking were echoed around the paddock by drivers with much more experience and ability than myself. As some may be aware a driver at a track day was killed recently in a Ferrari and the instructor in the passenger seat is still badly injured. We as a club must take control of the events we organise in a firm way so that these unfortunate incidents are reduced to a minimum. The final instructions were detailed and well presented but??

For those who are able or so inclined/need to test, perhaps the regular pay and test sessions open to race licence holders at mallory and other circuits would be more suitable.

Track days should be non damaging disciplined events where one can explore the limits of ones vehicle/driving skills with your teenage son in the passenger seat, and not be afraid that someone is going to create a problem by overtaking in MY braking area and pushing me off line to the point that I loose control.

Matthew Crisp

In a word appauling , no wonder the day wasn't incident free , leaving 1 man to do the breifing and signing on , not signing on passangers .......... your insurance would be next to worthless as the club did not take the relevant steps in my opinion

For a sensible sounding and regular trackday driver to comment to his son he felt it was to be a free for all shows that the briefing was poor , and things were not well run . Not pointing fingers at the guy that was there to run the day as he was obviously trying his best with little or no help .

I also STILL see no comments from the committee

In summary i would not attend a WSCC track day unless it was run by a proffesional TDO ,i value my safety and that of those around me on track .

[Martin Keene]

Can I just say, I do find it rather concerning that not a peep as been heard out of any of the commitee on this. I'm not saying they will have a answer or a solution to anything yet, but I thought somebody would have been along to tell us it is being dealt with...

[adhawkins]

Can I just say, I do find it rather concerning that not a peep as been heard out of any of the commitee on this.

I imagine that before an official comment can be made, then the committee as a whole need to decide what is going to be said.

I'm fairly sure that the Club Chairman (just to pick an example of a committee member who will need to have a say in the decision) is unlikely to have read all of this yet, as he has been competing at events all weekend, and is (I think) still on his way home from the second one.

Can I suggest that this be let to settle until there is a comment from the club?

Andy