Mark B Posted July 13, 2004 Author Share Posted July 13, 2004 I know what you mean about greenstuffs brian, I fitted some to my last cosworth, I think the standard pads were better! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilwillis Posted July 13, 2004 Share Posted July 13, 2004 The brakes on a Westfield are far more than adequate for road use. OK, try a few different types of pad, but I can assure you that they are about 160% efficient according to my SVA. What is the requirement for a road going car? I seem to recall it being between 60 and 80% but don't quote me on that. What you ought to be looking at is the front to rear balance. The biggest danger with Westfields is that you may find the rears are too efficient, causing the rear wheels to lock, which can be a problem. If you do anything with a road going car, make it a swap to twin master cylinders and a balance bar. Controversial? Probably, but twin pots cost the earth, and apart from looking good when painted red, and maybe being a useful addition if you have an out and out track monster with loads of grunt, a blatant waste of time! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark B Posted July 13, 2004 Author Share Posted July 13, 2004 Thanks for the advice neil, it was one of my concerns with the fronts locking up if I went for very powerful brakes at the front, although with no servo I reckon you can feel a bit more wrt how much pressure you are applying. I've not had the rears lock up although I have had the not so nice experience a few years ago in one of my escorts fitted with cosworth brakes and an ap bias valve, it was fine in the dry but in the wet used to have the rears locked at 70mph under braking, took me by surprise to say the least when it first happened! 4 pots can't be too bad though from this point of view with what people on here have said, and also westfield wouldn't sell them them if they were unsuitable? Although without driving a westfield with 4 pots I am just speculating, hence my reason for asking. I've pretty much decided to try either mintex or ferodo pads, change the fluid and see how it goes from there. I have a set of mintex pads that I didn't put in my cosworth for the rear so I'll probably pop those in at the same time. Before I do that tho I'll have a word with cat motorsport and the like to ask their opinion and also get a price. Cheers, Mark. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilwillis Posted July 13, 2004 Share Posted July 13, 2004 I didn't say 4 pots were not suitable, just that for the cost, there are lots of more worthwhile mods. The cars brakes are not inefficient as standard, that's all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark B Posted July 13, 2004 Author Share Posted July 13, 2004 Neil, all I was reading into it was that if standard brakes are more than adequate then 4 pots maybe too much? (for road use anyway). Anyway after doing a search and listening to all of your views I've convinced myself that ferodo ds2500's up front and some new fluid should be good enough for fast road use, if not then I'll look at 4 pots at a later date. Thanks for the feedback, Mark. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Seabrook Posted July 13, 2004 Share Posted July 13, 2004 I didn't say 4 pots were not suitable, just that for the cost, there are lots of more worthwhile mods. The cars brakes are not inefficient as standard, that's all. Yep 4 pots for the road are a bit over kill. That said I fitted some to my car with lighter discs and saved 12kg. 6kg per wheel of unsprung weight is not to be sneezed at. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petrol.Head Posted July 13, 2004 Share Posted July 13, 2004 Mark, As you brakes seem so poor it may be worth checking for the following problem before you get your cheque book out. You may have the same problem as I had on an SEI with a top mounted pedal box. If you do then a change of pads and/or calipers will not help Just get someone to push the brake pedal as hard as possible while you check what happens to the master cylinder. On my car the master cyllinder moved up and down by approx 2" If this is the case you may need to convert to floor mounted pedals or firm up the pedal box before you do anything else to the brakes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark B Posted July 13, 2004 Author Share Posted July 13, 2004 Petrol head, Thanks for the tip but I already have floor mounted pedals, don't get me wrong it's not like the brakes are really defective or anything, just that I think they are poor in comparrison with what I've been used to. Matt- That said I fitted some to my car with lighter discs and saved 12kg. 6kg per wheel of unsprung weight is not to be sneezed at. yep, shame it's not as inexpensive as going on a diet though! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilwillis Posted July 13, 2004 Share Posted July 13, 2004 Interesting section on TopGear about weight saving - moustaches cost an extra fiver a year in petrol - and that doesn't include parasitic drag from one if you're in an open topped car! (AFAIK, I don't have any parasites in mine though) Another interesting fact was that trains use more fuel per passenger than cars! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Seabrook Posted July 13, 2004 Share Posted July 13, 2004 Matt-That said I fitted some to my car with lighter discs and saved 12kg. 6kg per wheel of unsprung weight is not to be sneezed at. yep, shame it's not as inexpensive as going on a diet though! I did not know you could save unsprung wieght by going on a diet and are you saying I am fat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark B Posted July 13, 2004 Author Share Posted July 13, 2004 Yeah couldn't beleive that trains even when full of people cost more per person, wonder if it's still the same comparing it to a westy driven at mach 1? Laughed at his moustache calculation, twas a good show again, even my missus likes it, right I'm off for a haircut, I reckon a number one must be worth about 30 quid a year in fuel................... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark B Posted July 13, 2004 Author Share Posted July 13, 2004 Ok Matt so that's sprung weight, but hey it's all weight isn't it? and are you saying I am fat There's no such thing as overweight, just undertall- and before you say it no I didn't mean you either!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Seabrook Posted July 13, 2004 Share Posted July 13, 2004 There's no such thing as overweight, just undertall- and before you say it no I didn't mean you either!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatman Posted July 13, 2004 Share Posted July 13, 2004 I didn't say 4 pots were not suitable, just that for the cost, there are lots of more worthwhile mods. The cars brakes are not inefficient as standard, that's all. Yep 4 pots for the road are a bit over kill. That said I fitted some to my car with lighter discs and saved 12kg. 6kg per wheel of unsprung weight is not to be sneezed at. That *is* good news. My sprint car is about to lose it's Princess calipers and vented rotors in favout of some CAT calipers and some thin, drilled discs. A saving of 12Kg's of unsprung weight is excellent, and on it's own will get the sprinter down to 579Kg's. I'll need to re-visit the PWR thread, once I've done the calcs... Lets see.... 235/.579 = 406, near as dammit..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hilux Posted July 14, 2004 Share Posted July 14, 2004 twin pots cost the earth, and apart from looking good when painted red, and maybe being a useful addition if you have an out and out track monster with loads of grunt, a blatant waste of time! I fitted Bremsport 4 pots and green stuff pads on standard solid discs and it made a huge difference over the M16 set up in HOW the brakes overall performed. Braking distance definitely reduced, totally progressive brakes, no wheel lock up, basically it stopped as fast as you trod on the pedal with the back wheels locking up just as it came to a standstill and with the green stuff pads no dust to speak of. (Havent tried Mintex) When I`ve got the cash I`ll definitely be upgrading the Ginetta Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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