Wales trip 8/23

[simon walton]

Hi all , we know have 4 people , any one have any experience of groups of cars ? My experience is bikes , what is the best numbers of cars considering traffic lights ect ( anything that can split the cars )  

[Stuart]

@simon waltonI'll PM you my details for adding to the WhatsApp group shortly.  Being Worcestershire based I may not book in for 3 nights (and it will be easier to get a pass out for 2 nights anyway).

 

I once went on a drive in Denmark that had 50 cars on it.  OK, very quiet roads in Jutland but simple rules made it work.  If there is a deviation in the route and you can't see the car behind you, you wait at that deviation until they catch up.

 

Also I actually used the MyRoute app with some success on our tour of Wales this year (and a bit of failure - but I know why).  If you're not familiar with it, it's possible to plan routes then export maps in various file formats e.g. for Garmin and TomTom. This means anyone with a satnav (and possibly a phone app but I haven't done that yet) can have access to the route.  Put that in, say. 1 in 3 or 4 cars and together with stopping points you should have something that works even if there's a good number of cars.   

[Richard (OldStager)]

1 hour ago, simon walton said:

Hi all , we know have 4 people , any one have any experience of groups of cars ? My experience is bikes , what is the best numbers of cars considering traffic lights ect ( anything that can split the cars )  

 

Simon, can you pencil me in for this as a "maybe", reason is a housemove is planned and no idea financially if it will be possible.

Regarding the number of cars, I can't help but did find this from our "7" freinds. Although I suspect we have had more than this at some point in the past.

 

https://www.caterhamlotus7.club/forum/techtalk/maximum-number-vehicles-convoy?page=1

[Richard (OldStager)]

Thinking back 25 years ago, I used to organise a lot of runs for my car club , this was before the digital age mind, but I just had routes printed out and at the start point these were handed out , it was quite rare to get more than 4 or 5 cars together on the same section of road as some folks took wrong turnings or just stopped to admire the views so the "convoy" was almost non- existant.

[AndrewBClarke]

Room booked!! WhatsApp invite accepted. Needed to book early to ensure we get a twin room. Definitely don’t want to have a double and sleep with my son!!

[simon walton]

1 hour ago, Richard (OldStager) said:

 

Simon, can you pencil me in for this as a "maybe", reason is a housemove is planned and no idea financially if it will be possible.

Regarding the number of cars, I can't help but did find this from our "7" freinds. Although I suspect we have had more than this at some point in the past.

 

https://www.caterhamlotus7.club/forum/techtalk/maximum-number-vehicles-convoy?page=1

Hi Richard , can you pm your phone number and I will add you to the group , even booking the hotel is free cancellation so no commitment 

[Dave Eastwood (Gadgetman) - Club Chairman]

We made some notes years ago with regard to actual driving etiquette on runs.
 

[Dave Eastwood (Gadgetman) - Club Chairman]

As for numbers, that’s a difficult one, as it’s very dependent on the nature and style of road trip you are planning.

 

It also depends whether the organiser of the specific event, wants to go on a road trip, or be (essentially) a travel rep. 
 

The greater the numbers, the more time the leader will have to spend organising and administrating the event and will be driving for the cars at the back, rather than their own enjoyment. There are ways to mitigate this, BUT, they have to be done very carefully or they risk falling foul of MSA guidelines.

 

What are big numbers? Personally, I’d say 12 to 20+ (Though again, personally speaking, while I admire those that do, I simply wouldn’t do a touring event of more than twenty cars as the leader, or if I’m honest, these days, probably not as a participant, either, with certain exceptions, like the Stoneleigh convoy).

 

The above is assuming a moderate pace, in line with prevailing traffic, and so generally no overtaking of other cars.

 

If wanting to travel at lets say, a slightly brisker pace and press on somewhat, then I’d strongly recommend either keep the overall group size low, certainly under 12, and use convoy etiquette etc. OR break it up into smaller groups. Say three or four cars per group.

 

For a comparison, the Alpine passes tours we’ve done in Europe, our little group deliberately keeps the number down to four cars, as we find that’s hitting the comfortable  limits for keeping everyone more or less together, most of the time when making progress through traffic, (overtaking etc), and crossing bigger towns/cities.

 

However as a Club, we have to be very careful when organising split groups like that, just how the thing is arranged.

 

@Scott Young (Captain Colonial) - Club Secretary went through the MSA rules and regs earlier this year, which tallied very closely with info I’d dug up a couple of years ago. We’ll add it here, and in the start of the events section.

 

The long and short of it is though, that great care must be taken if you start handing out precise route maps, and arrival/depart times etc, that you don’t accidentally make it appear to be some kind of time trial etc. And you’re into permits, approved routes etc.

[simon walton]

48 minutes ago, Dave Eastwood (Gadgetman) - Club Chairman said:

As for numbers, that’s a difficult one, as it’s very dependent on the nature and style of road trip you are planning.

 

It also depends whether the organiser of the specific event, wants to go on a road trip, or be (essentially) a travel rep. 
 

The greater the numbers, the more time the leader will have to spend organising and administrating the event and will be driving for the cars at the back, rather than their own enjoyment. There are ways to mitigate this, BUT, they have to be done very carefully or they risk falling foul of MSA guidelines.

 

What are big numbers? Personally, I’d say 12 to 20+ (Though again, personally speaking, while I admire those that do, I simply wouldn’t do a touring event of more than twenty cars as the leader, or if I’m honest, these days, probably not as a participant, either, with certain exceptions, like the Stoneleigh convoy).

 

The above is assuming a moderate pace, in line with prevailing traffic, and so generally no overtaking of other cars.

 

If wanting to travel at lets say, a slightly brisker pace and press on somewhat, then I’d strongly recommend either keep the overall group size low, certainly under 12, and use convoy etiquette etc. OR break it up into smaller groups. Say three or four cars per group.

 

For a comparison, the Alpine passes tours we’ve done in Europe, our little group deliberately keeps the number down to four cars, as we find that’s hitting the comfortable  limits for keeping everyone more or less together, most of the time when making progress through traffic, (overtaking etc), and crossing bigger towns/cities.

 

However as a Club, we have to be very careful when organising split groups like that, just how the thing is arranged.

 

@Scott Young (Captain Colonial) - Club Secretary went through the MSA rules and regs earlier this year, which tallied very closely with info I’d dug up a couple of years ago. We’ll add it here, and in the start of the events section.

 

The long and short of it is though, that great care must be taken if you start handing out precise route maps, and arrival/depart times etc, that you don’t accidentally make it appear to be some kind of time trial etc. And you’re into permits, approved routes etc.

Thanks for the information Dave , I will not be handing out any information that’s got any times on it !!! I will send GPX files of my route , and if people want to follow it then it’s there choice , as for numbers I’m thinking 8 cars so we stand a chance of keeping them together and being able to park for coffee , lunch ect , again thanks for taking  the time to send the reply and information , the routes I have were designed for motorbikes and can take 7hrs a day so for the cars I’m thinking 8-9 hrs ? 

[Dave Eastwood (Gadgetman) - Club Chairman]

Here we go, Scott's post is in the AO Information section as obviously, it was info they need to be aware of for their normal events.

 

Quote

Please note that after a query from a club member, a subsequent investigation on my part and consultation with @Dave Eastwood (Gadgetman) - Club Chairman - Club Chairman and @Julie Hall - WSCC AO Representative , I wish to clarify a few things for Area Organisers and their event planning:

 

> No competition runs (treasure hunts, timed runs, etc) on public roads in excess of 12 members’ cars unless cleared at least 3 months in advance by the AO Representative and the MSA

 

This is very important to ensure the club does not violate the terms of its MSA membership.  A competitive event on public roads for more than twelve members is possible but requires considerable preparation and paperwork that needs to be completed well in advance.

 

> Non-competition scenic runs on public roads may be comprised of any sensible and manageable number of club member cars, provided they are operating within the law

 

(After consultation with the Traffic Division of Warwickshire Police, there is no upper legal limit on the number of cars in a non-competitive scenic run.  In the past, this had been wrongly understood to be a maximum of twelve cars.)

 

> Any non-club member involved in an organised club activity (such as a local car run) must be informed beforehand by the Area Organiser that they join the activity at their own personal risk (ie. the club’s Public Liability Insurance will not protect them)

For example, a number of members’ cars and a non-member’s car are parked up.  A small child runs over and touches a hot exhaust pipe, burning their hand.  Club members would be covered by the club’s PLI, whereas the non-member would not be covered.

 

The AO guide attached at the top of this thread has been updated with these items.

 

If you have any questions or require clarification on these three points only, please let me know - thanks.  

 

A further note, but shouldn't I suspect be relevant here, is that while the Police were not aware of any general limit on the number of cars on a scenic run, a few councils do have local level anti-cruise restrictions in place, that a run could possibly fall foul of!

[Dave Eastwood (Gadgetman) - Club Chairman]

Sounds absolutely spot on Simon.

[Nick Mucklow]

On 11/09/2022 at 20:59, AndrewBClarke said:

@simon waltonsent you pm with further whatsapp info and qr code. Hope this is enough to join the whatsapp group. Ta. Andrew

Oh if you need phone number for the What's App group my no is 07824704535.

[AndrewBClarke]

40 minutes ago, Nick Mucklow said:

Oh if you need phone number for the What's App group my no is 07824704535.

Pete was really pleased to hear that you might be coming. He feels much more comfortable if he knows someone 😀

[Nick Mucklow]

I get on with most folk so ya ok. Naa it sounds good this does to be fair.

[simon walton]

58 minutes ago, Nick Mucklow said:

I get on with most folk so ya ok. Naa it sounds good this does to be fair.

Added to the group and what part of the country are you from ?