Excess of moderation in the forum?

[maurici]

I´m wondering what is happening lately.

 

I don´t own a westfield anymore, and I come in here as normally the atmosphere is relaxed, free speech and even arguments while respectful were left alone, and where I have most of the time felt like at home... BUT

 

In the last month, I have had one post removed with what I thought was good information, another one was closed "because was drifting from the OP purpose" after I did a massive, well informed and objective post, yet it was in "stuff and nosense..." where most of the posts do drift away...

 

The last thing I have seen is a moderator opening a post, someone disagreeing, same moderator locking the post but leaving it live "to avoid future arguments". Well, if you are not ready for people disagreeing, beware on sharing your opinion... but sharing your opinion and then shutting the communication channel to sort of "stand your grounds" Isn´t the best way to run the place...

 

I agree moderation is necessary, sometimes stuff get messy, there is SPAM and bots to keep in check... but having an excess of them, means also a messy line of moderation based in personal opinions rather than following an agreed "editorial line"...

 

Aren´t we going a bit too far? or Have I just been unluky?

[Rory's Dad]

Personal opinions must be allowed (IMO)! 

[Blatman]

There's more to this than just one thread being locked. There was another thread that prompted Ian Tolfree's comments. That other thread was removed but becasue we can't see it, Ian looks like he's being a little officious. He isn't.

Lets not get carried away.

[DamperMan]

Any opinion which does not match mine is clearly wrong..  Moderation takes away my human right to tell them they are wrong.  . 

[maurici]

5 minutes ago, DamperMan said:

Any opinion which does not match mine is clearly wrong..  Moderation takes away my human right to tell them they are wrong.  . 

Yep. We all know that.

We also know that i'm allways right. 

[jeff oakley]

It is a fine line and I for one think the guys do a pretty good job overall. They have to look at legalities and to be honest when some of the threads are seen to be degenerating into too personal areas then they should be removed, however the individuals involved must be given reasons why otherwise it does appear too harsh to them.

 

Also we want people to come on here and see a welcoming club well run, those of us old enough will remember when an another 7 based forum was arguing all the time to great hilarity. We want to attract new members and they will form opinions on what they read.

 

We can all agree to disagree I feel in here

 

 

[maurici]

In all honestly, i have missed that the rant had been aireated already here...

If so, I would not have written mines but seconded this one.

 

However, now I have a bit of time.

After writting my rant, I got several private messages.

 

4 of them, of people feeling the same, but not wanting to speak up to dont be badly seen (those that know me will know i dont give the slighlest flying thing about it).

 

1 from a visibly offended moderator that felt himself personaly attacked. Only one of the 3 cases I have exposed... I apologise for that publicly as I it wasn´t a personal attack. It was a reflection of "is this the right way to do it"?

 

Anyway. This is not a personal attack to any moderator. They are human beings, they have an opinion, and they will moderate with this opinion in mind. And this is the mistake... you cant moderate based in your opinion and highlighting the club rules and ethics when none of them have been violated. Disagreeing in an opinion on how to read governamental rules, or a post drifting away from the OPs opinion or wishes, because there is a discusion happening is ABSOLUTELY NO REASON to intervine.

 

Even worst, is that once you express your disagreement on something, then someone gets offended, i get told of by private, and im told "we cant moderate at everyones taste" well, no, you can't but you could stick to the rules, and then no opinon would be driving your actions.

 

This is a point for reflection... to think a bit if so much control is the way forward. And if it is actually the way forward, its time to search for greener pastures. Visible moderation has evolved in the 8 years I have been reading the forum and the 6 I have been paid member, from a very rare thing when things got messy, to a common practice just in case it gets messy, and im sorry, but, that cant be like this if you want to have a "welcoming club".

 

If we want to avoid messiness... then topics like politics, religion, football, should not be allowed flat out. 95% of the arguments would be gone. I did propose this years ago and I was laugthed off... but if you allow this topics, then you have to let them go EVEN if you dont like the outcome. No insults, no disrespect, this is not ilegal... carry on. Either one or the other, but not halfway. When the brexit was the trending topic, me as inmigrant, felt so many times really bad reading some strong opinions here, and some from people I actually know and respect. I did suck it up, I didn´t take it personally, and the argument carried on without me. Should I have told I don´t like this, I would have been told to **** off... why stuff like this was never cut, and some very inoffensive things got blocked or deleted is beyond my understanding.

[Steve (sdh2903)]

17 minutes ago, maurici said:

In all honestly, i have missed that the rant had been aireated already here...

 

I wasn't ranting as such. But I will explain before I take a step back for a while. 

 

Blatman is correct, this started Earlier in the day, so I'll explain, a member posted some pictures of them out in their Westfield. Without knowing the full story several members started having a pop at him. I stood up for them. This ended up with me being called a w**ker. I'm not precious, I've been called worse. The post was moderated (correct thing to do and I recieved an explanation as to why it was moderated). 

 

Later on in the day this post appeared. 

 

 

To me this was a thinly veiled dig at the member posting the pics earlier on in the day. I also took exception to the fact "an officer of the club" is putting out statements effectively telling people how they should behave. This is not a job for forum moderators. Also as @maurici states this thread was then self pinned, self moderated and locked to prevent anyone from stating an alternative viewpoint. In my mind this is an abuse of moderation powers.

 

If this was the view point of the club then maybe it should have been posted by the chairman. 

 

I too have had pms from several members in support of my thoughts including one who's only form of transport is a Westfield, but In the eyes of some members and committee members would be vilified for using it, even though perfectly acceptable in the eyes of our lawmakers for essential reasons. 

 

In general the moderation team on here do a cracking job, however it appears the powers have gone to the heads of some. 

 

Steve. 

[MR.C]

Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely.

To be fair though "IF" and i emphasise If, you were breaking the rules why would you tell everybody?

[Blatman]

I missed the thread where a run out was posted. I agree wtih SDH in that there is no prescribed type of vehicle that can be used for essential journeys. But was the journey essential? It's easy to use the various "language loopholes" to justify any trip out. Put a person on the back foot by villifying them publicly and a defensive position will be taken. Nothing to see here but human nature.

 

I think Ian's message was well meaning. He is a Club official and I don't think I have ever seen one act where it is not in the clubs interests and I support him and the Committee 100% , including this time.

However... the delivery was maybe a tad clumsy. Hands up who has never tried to speak with a foot lodged firmly in their gob only to have it joined by the other one. I've done it a lot, you'll be unsurprised to hear...

 

I also think Maurici is making a mountain out of a molehill. I am responsible for plenty of... lets call them "lively discussions". Sometimes they get near the mark. But those of you who read and occasionally like to get involved when I'm on one will note that I almost never have threads I am involved in moderated. Given my posting history, any suggestion that there is too much moderation is demonstrably nonsense.

 

 

[Blatman]

7 minutes ago, MR.C said:

Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely.

To be fair though "IF" and i emphasise If, you were breaking the rules why would you tell everybody?

 

We don't know that any Covid breach occured. That part is pure speculation.

I don't think we should comment any further on that aspect of the discussion.

 

The moderation question crops up every so often. This is just another one of those threads where opinions can be aired and discussed.

[Captain Colonial]

Ah, the memories of moderation duty... 🙄

 

I think if people expect to be cut a bit of slack for the slightly OTT things they post once in a blue moon, moderators deserve the same bit of slack.  They’re not perfect (Lord knows I wasn’t) but they are doing their best and you can take it to the bank when I tell you it’s a thankless volunteer unpaid job.

 

It was almost without fail that the dreaded moderation report email would ping into my inbox in either the evening after a long rotten work day or a Sunday morning when I just wanted peace and quiet and a chance to recharge. It’s not easy to strike a balance and it’s easy to not quite succeed.  The moderation team does a great job - not a perfect one, but a great one and they have my appreciation and support.

[pistonbroke]

Half the problem is the written word can sometimes be very ambiguous , one person making a statement can often be interpreted to mean something completely different by another  

[Rory's Dad]

My wife's texting sometimes falls into the same trap. "Well I didn't mean it like that!" 

[maurici]

57 minutes ago, Scott Young said:

(Lord knows I wasn’t)

But you was already old and grumpy back then, so nobody got nervous about it. (Im risking it here, i know).

 

I Will try to sumarise what im trying to say. as how has been said, i MAY be doing a mountain ouf of nothing... or i just happened to be sensitive on the posts that have been moderated lately.

 

The question im saying here... again, out of persons behind the roles, and the good or wrong actions... as inevitably seems straight criticism to the moderators, and is really not the case:

 

Do we really need such a control unless stuff gets out of hands? Why some stuff is allowed to go out of hand before being taken care of (if at all) and others are actioned in a preventive way? 

 

Shall we avoid sensitive topics as a rule? Then the action by defect will be shut them.

Shall we allow them? Then... being whatever... covid brexit religion... you will be allowed to say you dont give a damn about anything and posting westfield pictures in the mountains while in lockdown... and inevitably someone may call you irresponsible... or a w**ker (and then it will be moderated).

 

While I admire the work being done to prevent screwups like when i suggested to use dubious... doh...  licenses for 3d software (not my brightest day) and ian sharply sorted...  or keeping in order technical and for sale sections, I can't really see the need of you guys having a hand in stuff and nonsense till someone calls someone elses a w**ker🤣 (even when most of the time will be true if is about me).

 

And if you deciede to have a hand, you cant just shut up some people, or shut up some sensitive topics and no others because you have no interest of this issue being discused, but sadly  it happens...