Heads up re MOT for your kit

[Robin Parker (Red Spider) - Yorkshire AO]

On 30/05/2019 at 19:10, Robin (Red Spider) - Yorkshire AO said:

Got my mot tomorrow, haven't needed it before. 

It's passed. 

Left the car at the garage this afternoon, going to pick it up tomorrow morning. Not asked for the V5.

[jeff oakley]

Last year my regular garage asked me to take my V5 in for them just to check. It used to be a blanket Q plate meant visible smoke only, but now we are trying to ave the planet, any Q plate if it has the emissions level on the V5 will be tested to that level. They must ask apparently as if they should have done an emissions test and didn't;'t it could cost them a licence.

 

On mine there is no level so it is still visible smoke. 

[jim_l]

There are parts of the manual suggesting that a VIN number is not required on a Q Plate car... 

Introduction

b. Vehicles having a Q plate registration when presented for MOT are to be treated as follows:

•  for emission purposes only, they are to be considered as first used before 1 August 1975

•  for all other testing purposes they are to be considered as being first used on 1 January 1971

 

Section 0 - Identification of the vehicle

A Vehicle Identification Number (VIN or chassis number) is required on:

•  kit cars and amateur built vehicles first used on or after 1 September 2001

•  all other vehicles first used on or after 1 August 1980.

It lacks clarity because  a post 2001 Q plated kit car could be in scope or out of scope of the 'required on' section.  Certainly you could argue pre-2001 Q plates don't require a VIN

 

Jim

 

 

[Kingster]

8 hours ago, jim_l said:

for all other testing purposes

Says to me that a Q would not need a VIN check as a Q is deemed “first used” before the required date for a VIN

 

8 hours ago, jim_l said:

emission purposes only,

Says visible smoke for all Q’s as you don’t need to refer to the vin (see above)

 

8 hours ago, jim_l said:

Certainly you could argue pre-2001 Q plates don't require a VIN

 

Actually you could argue that all q plates don’t need a VIN and thus you could explain why you didn’t bring your V5 - and so only require emissions testing if the computer tells him it needs it. 

[Hemsley]

Took mine for the first MOT yesterday and discovered:

- nearside tracked end is shot

- braking is ~30% less effective on nearside than the offside

- emissions are way out

 

The first 2 should not be so hard, I hope. New track rod end, and new brake fluid / bleed brakes and retest.

 

As for the emissions, I now recall something from the rolling road tuning, about the Lambda sensor maybe not configured, and that I should remember to get this set before the MOT. So quick question, does anyone know which tab or setting in MAP4000 where I would find this?

 

For what it's worth my local garage and MOT centre is an old time independent family run firm, and are super-helpful people - I'm lucky with that and know it! I'm due back in there on Friday...

[Gary Taylor]

Got mine done at the local garage who does all my cars before we left

the stainless exhaust and cat were in the garage the carbon and link pipe on the car and no problem and not asked for any paperwork 

[jonjh1964]

18 hours ago, Hemsley said:

As for the emissions, I now recall something from the rolling road tuning, about the Lambda sensor maybe not configured, and that I should remember to get this set before the MOT. So quick question, does anyone know which tab or setting in MAP4000 where I would find this?

 

 

I believe that setting the highlighted 'OX FB Rate' to 100 mS it will enable the Lambda sensor, to switch off set back to 0

 

 

extract from the OMEX tuning manual

 

[Hemsley]

Top man Jon, and thanks for taking the time to post the screenshots. I'll try it out tomorrow evening.

[Nemesis]

I'm off for an MOT on saturday morning, if it's anything like the last one he'll use a donor vehicle for the exhaust gases.... but I'm not grassing !

 

Nem.......

 

[Kingster]

13 minutes ago, Nemesis said:

I'm off for an MOT on saturday morning, if it's anything like the last one he'll use a donor vehicle for the exhaust gases.... but I'm not grassing !

 

Nem.......

 

Public forum post alert - your call but happy to hide this!

[Martyn Vann - Warwickshire AO]

With regards to the requirement for a V5 document for an MOT emissions test. This not a new requirement as it has been in place at least 10 years, I believe it was shortly after the introduction of SVA/IVA in 1998 when emissions limits were tested before a pass could be achieved. Those limits should then have been added to the V5 when it was produced by DVLA, however, this did not always happen! Its introduction and relevancy was from 2001 as this would have been the first MOT for registrations from 1998. 

 

Kit car emissions test:

• A 'Q' plate car is treated as pre 1975 for emissions purposes, so any limits on the V5 are not relevant and production of the V5 is not required for this purpose.
• A kit car on an age related or private plate, registered from 1998 onwards requires an emissions test and the test process is that the limits on the V5 are used for the test. This means that an MOT tester must see the V5 before carrying out the test. Unsurprisingly, not all testers follow the correct procedures!
• If there are no limits on the V5 then an emissions test is carried out using default limits based on the registration age of the kit car OR the age of the engine fitted at SVA/IVA if it is older. The burden of proof of the engine age is on the presenter of the vehicle and a tester can accept any reliable evidence provided.
• A tester may refuse to test a vehicle when the appropriate information is not provided by the presenter, V5 or otherwise.

NB. The MOT testing service does not contain any emissions data for individual vehicles. General emissions data is available for all UK registered production vehicles via DVSA website and the MOT testing exhaust gas analyser. The current data set does not include any Westfields but it does include Caterhams!

 

Kit car VIN inspection:

 

The VIN on the vehicle should be inspected and recorded for entry to and checking on the MOT testing service but there is no requirement to check it against a V5 document. Some vehicles may not require a VIN or chassis number due age and that could be applied any 'Q' plated kit car as it is treated as registered before 1971.

 

Finally, the V5 may need to be produced for any vehicle that does not carry a relevant registration age VRM, eg. anything on a cherished number plate!  

[Kingster]

4 hours ago, Martyn Vann - Joint Warwickshire AO said:

A 'Q' plate car is treated as pre 1975 for emissions purposes, so any limits on the V5 are not relevant and production of the V5 is not required for this purpose.

Got to love the Q plate 😁😁😁

[Steve (sdh2903)]

So begs the question why put the emissions on the v5? I was under the impression it was to stop the loophole of visible smoke only on modern engines?

[Kingster]

Passed MOT today no emissions test - visible smoke only. 👍

 

Had a long chat with tester who agreed that the new rules were very contradictory regarding kit cars, Q reg rules, V5 emissions etc etc. There was also a part of the test where he said it needed a dual circuit braking system - he reckoned he’d need to argue it with the examiner who checks him!

[Martyn Vann - Warwickshire AO]

On 03/07/2019 at 11:17, Chris King - Webmaster and Joint North East AO said:

Passed MOT today no emissions test - visible smoke only. 👍

 

Had a long chat with tester who agreed that the new rules were very contradictory regarding kit cars, Q reg rules, V5 emissions etc etc. There was also a part of the test where he said it needed a dual circuit braking system - he reckoned he’d need to argue it with the examiner who checks him!

 

The guidance in the testing manual is very clear with regards to Q plate, be it a kit car or otherwise it is treated as registered pre-1975 so the applicable test is visible smoke only. The V5 emission limits apply to kit cars registered from 1998 onwards and carrying a VRM with an age identifying number or any substitute cherished VRM. Note: a Q plate registration cannot have a VRM changed! They are not contradictory but they may be flawed. All we have to do is follow the rules!

 

With regards to your second point @Chris King - Webmaster and Joint North East AO there is no requirement in the MOT testing manual stipulating the requirement of dual circuit brakes in order to pass the test. However, they are required by The Road Traffic Act 1988 (Construction and Use regulations) and full European Type Approval together with Individual Type Approval for kit cars since 1998. So no arguing required as it is very straight forward even if it does not seem logical!

 

BTW, not sure how the brake question arose because I would expect your car to have dual circuit brakes anyway?

 

Martyn