Anglesey weekend, or the horror story of the catalyst witch hunt

[stephenh]

Is this the relevant rule? (which I've cut and pasted from the MSA blue book.)

5.16.7. Exhaust catalytic converters must be fitted to all petrol engined production based saloon, touring and sports cars, including specialist production and kit cars, manufactured after 31/12/99. They may be specified for certain other formulae. Competitors are reminded of their obligation to maintain such equipment on a vehicle used on the highway where government legislation requires it.

[stephenh]

A separate sports cat can be purchased from Cherry Bomb for about £150 inc. vat, which in the grand scheme of things isn't a big sum in the context of running and competing in a sprint car.

Either Maurici was complying with the rules or he wasn't. If he wasn't then bad luck for him and the others involved in this event, but if he was complying with the rules, then he  should have appealed to the stewards. Unfortunately he is way out of time for that now, but it needs sorting out sooner rather than later.

[maurici]

I was definitely compilant now reading the regulations as the Blue book, perfectly states YEAR of manufacturing, not of registration. Oh my good. I'm really burning in rage right now. I'm exactly in the same condition than @Terry Everall - WSCC Competition Secretary car. I really want the club's support right now. I'm not on time to officially appeal and all the damage is done, but I want something back. Is absolutely unnaceoptable that the people who are meant to know the inners and outs of the blue book are unable to take such a important decisiont without gathering all the possible data. they should not be running any event given how huge impact their mistakes can have against a competitor

[Howard]

29 minutes ago, maurici said:

Then EVEN worst. My chasis is a from 1998... then are you telling me that appart of all, they excluded me with no grounds.

I'm guessing that you put the year of registration on the entry forms (as I'm sure many people do) rather than the chassis year.  The entry list is what the scrutineers will most likely go off, unless you point out to them the chassis number and year identifier.  It's poor that they don't seem to take this on board and just take the easy route of whatever is declared on the entry list.  But I suppose they're busy enough as it is. 

[tkm_dave]

16 minutes ago, stephenh said:

Is this the relevant rule? (which I've cut and pasted from the MSA blue book.)

5.16.7. Exhaust catalytic converters must be fitted to all...manufactured after 31/12/99. Competitors are reminded of their obligation to maintain such equipment on a vehicle used on the highway where government legislation requires it.

Chopping out the relevant points to many Westfield owners from the above, that's a classic MSA contradiction, especially when considering Q plates.

[jonjh1964]

My car was ‘re’built in 2017/18, IVA’d in Mar 18 and 1st Registered in April 18 all with a Cat as the engine was pre-1975. The V5C has the following note:

The Blue Book appears to assume that all cars manufactured from 2000 onwards must have had a Cat and there must have it fitted to compete. A kit car can be built and registered today without any emissions test beyond ‘visual smoke’ provided that the engine is pre1975. Looks like the MSA don’t understand the Govt Regs for kit cars unless it could be successfully argued that it’s a ‘rebuild’ (as per the V5C) and the 1974 donor car is the build date.

[Rory's Dad]

This is dreadful. Maurici, I am so angry reading your posts. 

[Kingster]

58 minutes ago, stephenh said:

separate sports cat can be purchased from Cherry Bomb for about £150 inc.

Plus the cost of fabrication/modification of existing system and maybe a remap (not sure how a cat would affect this?)

[Kingster]

32 minutes ago, jonjh1964 said:

provided that the engine is pre1975. 

Actually it’s a pre 1995 engine at IVA for no cat required and then if issued a Q it’s any engine you care to fit afterwards with or without a cat. 

I know because my car was IVAd with a ‘93 Zetec and now has a 2004 Zetec and passed. last MOT with visible smoke only. No cat required. 

[maurici]

Well I will leave the proof here, and therefore, closing my participation to this circus. SHAME on Longton, on the scrutinier, and on the clerk of the course witch I would like to name and shame but I will not:

the year identifier is an X witch states that left the factory before the end of 1999, that normally means a year of production before in most manufacturers, so 1998. EVEN if it was 1999 they excluded me incorrectly.

If it was any bit of decency left, Longton should refund me at least with all the entry fees given that was their mistake, not mines... but honestly, I don't even expect an apologie. They f***** it up very very very badly and they will walk heads down with no other consequence that shame

[Paul Morcom]

1 hour ago, Howard said:

I'm guessing that you put the year of registration on the entry forms (as I'm sure many people do) rather than the chassis year.  The entry list is what the scrutineers will most likely go off, unless you point out to them the chassis number and year identifier.  It's poor that they don't seem to take this on board and just take the easy route of whatever is declared on the entry list.  But I suppose they're busy enough as it is. 

Looking at the Entry List on the LDMC website it states a "Car year" of 2001 - assuming this is what Maurici put on his entry form. I was not there so cannot comment on how the situation was handled by the scrutineer, Clerk of the Course, club or Maurici. But.....

It is up to us as entrants/individuals to know the rules, prepare and present our car accordingly and put in our entries correctly. Also bring to the attention of the organising club any errors that they may have introduced.

[maurici]

7 minutes ago, Paul Morcom said:

Looking at the Entry List on the LDMC website it states a "Car year" of 2001 - assuming this is what Maurici put on his entry form. I was not there so cannot comment on how the situation was handled by the scrutineer, Clerk of the Course, club or Maurici. But.....

It is up to us as entrants/individuals to know the rules, prepare and present our car accordingly and put in our entries correctly. Also bring to the attention of the organising club any errors that they may have introduced.

I did told to the chief scrutinier that was an older chasis than what it was registered just when I entered trough the door. 

the answer was " I dont want to hear all of this as is not what I've asked. Do you have a cat yes or not, is a very simple question"

So, I didn't know the in and out of the regulation itself. We (Mike Dent) asked for a blue book on site, that  I think it wasn't provided, so, there was not appeal possible, THEY WANTED US EXCLUDED.

[stickymint]

i was also  competing in my 2015 built Megabusa that is non road legal, for which I have a MSA vehicle passport (which clarifies these details) and was competing in Class 3H - Modified Kit, Replica & Spaceframe Car (motorcycle derived engines).

Not having been asked/challenged  ever before on this I  did ask for clarification as to the ruling in the Blue Book, following the post event scrutineering session.  This was provided by another scrutineer:-

"5.16.7. Exhaust catalytic converters must be fitted to all petrol engined production based saloon, touring and sports cars, including specialist production and kit cars, manufactured after 31/12/99. They may be specified for certain other formulae. Competitors are reminded of their obligation to maintain such equipment on a vehicle used on the highway where government legislation requires it"

As mentioned earlier in this post the SSOT are pulling the facts together so they can take it up on our behalf.  

 

[Paul Morcom]

Hi Maurici,

I feel for you, our sport is not cheap and we expect better from event organisers and the officials that they use. Particularly the roles that are sanctioned by Motorsport UK.

There is a Motorsport UK appeals process but, like all things Motorsport UK a £120-£260 fee is required, which at our level means nobody is going to appeal!

Personally I would be writing a factual letter to the Organising Club, copying in the Clerk of the Course and Chief Scrutineer and also send a copy to Motorsport UK.

Motorsports UK do have a complaints process (free) that you could use......clicky

 

[Terryathome]

Morcini, sounds like you got done over, hope that bloke doesn't drink in the same pub as you