2019 Speed Series Regulations

[Terry Everall]

The cash prizes go right down to 10th and also apply to Mini Sprint and Novices so it is spread across everyone !

[AdamR]

Is it though? Why is a novice win only worth a little over quarter of an expert win? Why does the mini sprint which needs 5 events only get a fifth of the overall win which requires 10 events? Why do 10 'experts' get cash prizes but only a maximum of 3 newbies?

Of course I understand why, I'm just teasing the lid of that can of worms open a bit more, but IMO to a newbie coming in it says 'we don't value you as much as we do the regulars'.

Edit: imagine offering a £500 for novice winner (no other prizes). If the real motivation is to encourage new participation then surely that would be a better 'solution' (appreciate there is no perfect one)?

[Terry Everall]

Adam

There is no perfect solution to this and we do not have an unlimited amount of cash. 

[graham frankland]

Please help me here as I am confused on what all this seat debate s based upon?

I have had a look at the DVLA web site and the requirements for the MOT test seem to be :

1) The drivers seat can be adjusted

2) All seats are securely fitted and seat backs can be fixed in the up-right position.

I cannot see any requirement for a passenger seat to be present in the MOT regs unless I have missed something (always possible in my case)

Under these conditions I believe if any material used for the passenger seat is securely fastened then it should pass the MOT with suitable seat belts fitted of course.

It does raise the issue of whether just sitting on the floor leaning against the rear bulk head panel does constitute being a seat for MOT purposes (providing both parts are securely fixed?)

As for the Motorsport UK regs they do describe front seats in the plural which tends to assume that more than one is fitted and they can be replaced by fully trimmed competiiton seats.

It does not say that two front seats should be present!

What is clear is that head restraints are mandatory !

So my interpretation would be that both Road Going and Modified Classes can run without passeger side seat, head restraint and seat belts without problems of MOT and on the day scrutineering.

No doubt this has all been thoroughly checked over in preparation for the 2019 regs but I thought I give another point of view in an attempt to reduce the interest the subject has generated.

Thanks

G

 

[maurici]

1 hour ago, graham frankland said:

No doubt this has all been thoroughly checked over in preparation for the 2019 regs but I thought I give another point of view in an attempt to reduce the interest the subject has generated.

Thanks

G

 

TO be fair, I think It haven't.

Its been a (good) try to restrain the freedom of the roadgoing cars, witch is fair enough, but It haven't been contemplated the implications.

Cars have to be fully compilant with a FULL MOT, and be according with SVA-IVA (as per Bluebook really). Ok then, Any of the cars that doesn't use a IVA friendly Steering wheel, that has a front splitter, or that has removed all the edge trimming, is technically non MOT compilant... but, still, every MOT station (and anyone with an inch of forehead) will oversee this "because kit car". But regulations on hand, they have wiped out the elegibility of any previous car that has been in the roadgoing classes before.

As Adam has pointed out, A full mot (not only daylight mot) will wipe also most of the TT, At least the ones that have been records and no calculated, as the "roadgoing" clasees have been quite often widely intepreted, we have had a lot of cars without lights, passenger seats... echo... Lighter cars. Basically, a competitive roadgoing car has very often been "the best it can be borderline passing an MOT adding a few bits here and there" (something that I've been strongly against despite it was going against myself). There is a whole lot of implication behind this wording... Including the Westfield supplied or GRP seats that wipe out straight away any alternative material for the driver seat. (that has been understood that isn't the intention, and I gess will be re-worded).

Regulating is not easy AT ALL... particularly when there is a bunch of nunneys like us waiting to deciede to enter o not depending of the regulations and the target times ready to fight for anything that doesn't fits our car... let alone when it does alters the whole class where we expected to enter...

I get how difficult it is, and trust me, I kinda feel bad being here jumping to debate any change... but ****, i'm being unlucky. Last year changes,  messed with all my competition plans and when feedback was heard and eventually ammended, was too late... At least Me and @BCF were lost in the process, who knows if someone else. This year is catched me with a new car, and with an already bought twin component expanding foam seat kit... just to find I won't be allowed to go out with this, messing with my budget and compromising again going out this year.

Well. This year, won't happen again. Will do my plans aside the  WSS, and if there is enough justification to get involved later on with the WSS, I will, if not, I won't. Fortunately, alternative clubs have very similar calendars for what I would requiere. So don't rush for me. The rule doesn't needs clarification anymore, and if you want to wipe again the "hotline" question, do it. I don't want to make you work or even doble think just to find out I'm not entering at the end.

When changing a rule, is important to contemplate any scenarios, nunneys included. With the current wording in the Regs, If I was checking elegibility I could wipe out  every single A and B  car using a 30 degree cone. That was true with the previous wording tho..., but nobody had wiped out a component for non being SVA / IVA compatible... we appear to do an exception now with the seats.

 

*Edit:

Cash prices are nice... If you are first, second and third... and 6th... maybe are relevant... but this won't Made the participation any higher, and won't attract any novice. What I can see... is that the people with pretty much endless budget, competing with 25k cars, 50k motorhomes and 10k trailers, will have few hundred quid to bring the wives out for a dinner. Not that they need it. Not a club spirit really.

Measures to attract participation?

Adam is made a nice suggestion. Here is another one: Take the £1400 you are going to share and made the SS for free, subject to 5 participations. If you don't attend to 5 meetings, then you pay your admin fees. Then, share any "profits" with a raffle with motorsport material or vouchers...

People will go great lenghts to make their free SS entry worthy, regardles of having to spend 20 times said entry fee to make it work...

At the end, entrants already are paying members, isnt it?

A very dedicated novice with a very competitive car and decent skills may achieve realistically what? 7th? 8th overall? so £140 Vs an average of  £2.5k season... That won't incline the scales...

 

 

 

[RICHARD+PHILIP]

I Miss 1As and Full screens life was simpler.

[graham frankland]

On 06/12/2018 at 21:28, terry everall said:

 

John

In V2 of the 2019 Regs Section 3 clauses refer to 2018 MSUK regs and not 2019!

Thanks

G

[Mark (smokey mow)]

If the MSA rules are going to be applied so rigorously this year with regard to seats and headlights, can I assume that regulation 5.14.4 will be equally enforced within the speed series and we will all therefore have to change our headlights to 6" diameter?  

Quote

 

5.14.4. With the exception of racing cars, or cars of Periods A to C, have headlights in normal working order with glasses of minimum 182.5 sq cm each unless SRs permit their removal.

 

 

[John Loudon - Sponsorship Liaison]

1 hour ago, Mark (smokey mow) said:

If the MSA rules are going to be applied so rigorously this year with regard to seats and headlights, can I assume that regulation 5.14.4 will be equally enforced within the speed series and we will all therefore have to change our headlights to 6" diameter?  

 

That isn't related to Sprints and Hillclimbs. Pages 337 to 348 are specific to our sport and 5.14.4 isn't part of it

https://www.motorsportuk.org/assets/bb2019completemed-res.pdf

[Mark (smokey mow)]

50 minutes ago, John said:

That isn't related to Sprints and Hillclimbs. Pages 337 to 348 are specific to our sport and 5.14.4 isn't part of it

https://www.motorsportuk.org/assets/bb2019completemed-res.pdf

It most certainly is!

i think section S 7.1.3. Would apply here

"Cars conpeting in hill climbs and sprints must comply with Technical Regulations 10-15 and section J."

 

if you're  suggesting that this section of the blue book doesn't apply to sprints then nether will anything that has already been quoted by others about seats as that's also in exactly the same section of the book 

[John Loudon - Sponsorship Liaison]

4 minutes ago, Mark (smokey mow) said:

It most certainly is!

i think section S 7.1.3. Would apply here

"Cars conpeting in hill climbs and sprints must comply with Technical Regulations 10-15 and section J."

 

if you're  suggesting that this section of the blue book doesn't apply to sprints then nether will anything that has already been quoted by others about seats as that's also in exactly the same section of the book 

You are correct - my apologies. in which case Daylight MOTs are certainly not allowed as cars MUST have headlights according to this

[AdamR]

So that also means minimum 6 and a bit inch headlights, if we're going by the book?

[Mark (smokey mow)]

23 minutes ago, AdamR said:

So that also means minimum 6 and a bit inch headlights, if we're going by the book?

I read that as yes  unless its written into our own series regs to permit the use of something smaller

[Marto303]

[John Williams (Panda) - Joint Manchester AO]

5 hours ago, graham frankland said:

John

In V2 of the 2019 Regs Section 3 clauses refer to 2018 MSUK regs and not 2019!

Thanks

G

thanks i'l fix cheers @graham frankland