Group module Practice run in anglesey Sprint

[tkm_dave]

 

[Terryathome]

F1 and other classes do it without major concerns 

[AdamR]

True Terry, but the drivers are experienced with this format, and have cars prepped appropriately for it.

[mark.anson]

Even if I had enough fuel, I'd use a years worth of wear on my slicks in 10'minutes. 

[graham frankland]

Is such a late change of format permitted within regs approved by the MSA at an earlier date?

Graham

[Paul Aspden]

Can someone scan and post the actual proposal please as I'm struggling to get my head around it! Not that it matters to me, just curious

[Onliest Smeg David]

37 minutes ago, Paul Aspden said:

Can someone scan and post the actual proposal please as I'm struggling to get my head around it! Not that it matters to me, just curious

Agree - WHAT is actually planned?.

I cannot see on email or enclosure what GMPS is!

Edit: can now phone downloaded attachment correctly.

[tkm_dave]

1. Practice will be run in groups of vehicles of similar performance.

2. No group is to exceed the MSA race track licence number for each division within that

   licence. (The group size is expected to be between 15-20 cars).

3. Competitors will be allocated their group identity number by the organisers.

4. Practice will not be timed, and must not be used to determine a running order.

5. The track time for each group on the National Course will be 10 minutes.

6. The track time for each group on the International Course will be 15 minutes.

7. Overtaking is permitted with the overtaking vehicle having to pass ONLY on the left of the slower

   vehicle.

8. Overtaking is not permitted in the braking zone or on the corners.

9. It is the sole responsibility of the overtaking vehicle driver to ensure that it is 100% safe to do so.

10. Competitors must complete a minimum of two laps.

11. As usual at all LDMC events you will be checked for attendance at the drivers briefing.

12. When practice is finished the normal routine will resume for timed competitive runs.

   

[tkm_dave]

Pm me your email and I will forward the whole attachment we received.

[maurici]

This is the first page. with daves and my text we have the whole transcription.

 

Issued 1200hrs – Wednesday 27th September 2017

Amend (4.3.21) Practice will be run as a Group Module Practice Session (GMPS).

Reason

More practice track time.

More competitive timed runs.

More track mileage.

Improved value for money.

Background

The speed event principle of two practice and two timed runs has been the norm over many decades, but as costs have risen and entry fees followed, the "value for money" aspect has been eroded. Longton & District MC has been at the forefront of trying to give competitors as many timed runs as possible - more than most other clubs - and we want to do more. Part of the problem has been that practice runs take up the morning at most events and do not contribute towards the competition or awards. If we can cut down the time that practice takes and at the same time give drivers more time on track in that period the "value for money" will improve greatly. This in turn gives more time for competitive runs - even greater value! Our Chairman, Graham Malcolm, has been developing an idea over the last fifteen months and now LDMC has been given MSA approval for a new practice system to be used at our Anglesey Sprint meeting over the weekend of 14th and 15th October 2017. The GMPS has the full support of the clubs’ committee and officials who wish to continue to give you - the competitors – good full days of motor sport. We also believe that the system will improve the involvement and enthusiasm of the marshals.

 

I would really like all the involved westfields drivers in Anglesey to give their opinion...

We are A LOT in anglesey and we could have a saying...

 

Oh. Just thought... how the double drivers will be arranged?

 

[tkm_dave]

Direct quote from Alex Gaskin, an impartial (as he is not a competitor yet) view of the proposed practise scenario. Thought it would be good to show that it's not just those actually driving in it that can see some of the shortcomings...

"With regards to the Practice running at Anglesey later on in the year, after reading through everyone’s ideas, I can’t help but think, being a BSC event, and running cars with similar performance in batches, having multiple Gould’s, a DJ Firehawk, a Van Dieman etc all out on track, at the same time, would be suicidal. And with their tyres, cooling and fueling, they’d do 1 or 2 laps then come in and have to have prep done for the timed runs. I can see why LDMC want to do that sort of thing, however it has too many risks associated with it. Everything works perfectly fine as is, and has done for the past decade with LDMC at Anglesey."

[Roz]

As a newbie I don't normally feel knowledgeable enough join in the discussions but this did worry me when I read it.  Other than our Westie day I would not do a track day as I worry about being a moving chicane but I think the difference between this and track day is that everyone will trying  much harder as they know it is a competition.  I have seen several cases of over exuberance  on convoy runs with cars nearly going into the back of the one in front, so with 20 cars on track there will always be the ones that want to race will they get black flagged for bad behaviour?   Also what would happen if there was a crash, a genuine accident or due to the red mist how would blame be apportioned?  Who would pay for any damage caused?

Also with double drivers how would they be able to keep you in a group of similar speed?  How would this be judged - I am slower than Steve in the same car but he is faster than some with  more power so how would we be split?

 

[Marto303]

Am I missing something here,  isn't the reason for "Practice Laps" to give you an idea of track conditions and a time as a reference to see where you stand against your competitors / targets in those conditions !

GMPS sounds like it's just a different way of cutting the cake that makes the day seam like better value for money,  but actually you still only get the same 4 timed runs !

GMPS in the rain with vehicle of similar performance but drivers of all different abilities - not for me thank you !

This sounds like a terrible idea to me, was going to enter but won't bother now. 

Good luck guys, hope it works out ok.

 

3 hours ago, tkm_dave said:

1. Practice will be run in groups of vehicles of similar performance.

2. No group is to exceed the MSA race track licence number for each division within that

   licence. (The group size is expected to be between 15-20 cars).

3. Competitors will be allocated their group identity number by the organisers.

4. Practice will not be timed, and must not be used to determine a running order.

5. The track time for each group on the National Course will be 10 minutes.

6. The track time for each group on the International Course will be 15 minutes.

7. Overtaking is permitted with the overtaking vehicle having to pass ONLY on the left of the slower

   vehicle.

8. Overtaking is not permitted in the braking zone or on the corners.

9. It is the sole responsibility of the overtaking vehicle driver to ensure that it is 100% safe to do so.

10. Competitors must complete a minimum of two laps.

11. As usual at all LDMC events you will be checked for attendance at the drivers briefing.

12. When practice is finished the normal routine will resume for timed competitive runs.

   

 

[graham frankland]

Better value for money has been asked for by many entrants so it would be good to support the Longton initiative if possible?

I understand and appreciate the concerns of the proposed approach to practice!

If the batching of cars is reasonable and if overtaking is NOT permitted during the practice/familiarisation laps then perhaps some of the concerns to away?

The objective needs to be to get to the Timed runs as quickly and as safely as possible!

If this is a sensible proposal then someone will need to talk to the Longton guys!

Graham

[maurici]

Well.

The topic  has been deeply discussed at the British Sprint Championship facebook page, with a massive participation.

Almost every competitor (even competitors that will be not in Anglesey, so they are quite neutral) has drop their feedback there.

Unfortunately for the proposal, seems that the vast majority of the people is totally against it, with people assuring to drop the entry, or not to entrer if this go ahead.

Longton has been aware of the feedback as Graham is in the topic, and they are digesting it. Most of us have replied the E-mail of the bulletin raising our concerns and stating our position against this idea.

 Hopefully the will come back with a sensible solution that will satisfy the most, and every competitor will decide to support it or not. Is easily understandable that people go in riot when a change in the regulations is dropped 2 weeks before the event, whith entries paid, B&bs arranged, plans committed... championships to decide...

Not a sensible way to proceed at all. Even if the change was absolutely perfect, you cant change the terms and conditions of a "product" after the purchase... and I'm sure with the Regulations, works in the same way.

Now is time to wait and see how it comes. Hope a fast an sensible decision is made so the event can go ahead an nobody is loosing money having to cancel accommodations.

However, And I have not say it before, I think is highly valuable that A club is trying to innovate and improve to give what they thought the people wanted. I don't want they to feel discouraged because of that, Is just that needs to be done in a different way and smoothly.