Why 1C tyres should be categorised road legal by MSA

[XTR2Turbo]

Graham.  The MSA are actually quite precise in their answer and I think know the detail.  Rightly or wrongly they are choosing to opt for the legal to sell rather than legal to use stance.  The competition use is a get out to sell them but the MSA don't seem to want to follow this path and want road going tyres to be universally available for sale for road use.  ie you could turn up at quick fit, legally buy tyres and then have them fitted to your car. Other than the fact we have all got used to enjoying the benefits of sticky tyres, you can see the logic to their argument.  I just don't see why they bothered with 1C in this case.

[graham frankland]

Terry

 

Please stop pushing this MSA Log Book issue which is totally un-true!

 

If you have a V5, MOT Tax and Insurance you do not need an MSA Log Book to run in Mod Prod on the day classes. (but a Hans Device will be required) 

 

As you know this situation has been confirmed by Nick with the MSA

 

Also 1C tyres will be available (as advised by tyre the manufacturers) until either legislation changes or the lack of demand makes them not viable to continue manufacture. 

 

I checked with Kumho UK last week who advised they now have stock most of the V70 sizes after delays in manufacturing in Korea!

 

I hope this corrects some of the mis-information that is confusing what is a very emotional problem but one that has a very fair and logical solution!

 

Thanks

 

Glutey

[Terry Everall]

Do they say 

FOR COMPETITION USE ONLY

[XTR2Turbo]

No they will say for competition use ... a subtle difference ;-)

[windy]

Do they say 

FOR COMPETITION USE ONLY

No, "FOR COMPETITION USE"

[John Loudon - Sponsorship Liaison]

Its interesting that allow Yokohama A032R and A048R in list 1B in a certain sizes but all other sizes of them are in 1C. They have clearly therefore made and exception in certain cases such as sizes for classic mini and Lotus Elises - double standards to say the least

[windy]

The only reason a tyre would have been removed from list 1b onto 1c is because the manufacturer has confirmed that it does not comply with the new EU labelling regulations. 

 

Michael Duncan         

Technical Administrator

Motor Sports Association, Riverside Park, Colnbrook, SL3 0HG

T: +44 (0)1753 765037 | M: +44 (0)7824 663 720 | michael.duncan@msauk.org

@msauk  /msauk | www.msauk.org

The Royal Automobile Club Motor Sports Association Limited, trading as Motor Sports Association.

Registered in England and Wales 1344829. For full email disclaimer, please click here.

 

I don't believe what this guy is saying when we already have letters from Dunlop & Kumho saying that they do comply. You can retain the approval providing you comply with the exemption in article 2 - see my original posting.

[windy]

Its interesting that allow Yokohama A032R and A048R in list 1B in a certain sizes but all other sizes of them are in 1C. They have clearly therefore made and exception in certain cases such as sizes for classic mini and Lotus Elises - double standards to say the least

That's because Lotus have put their cars through the type approval process with these tyres, hence why they are categorised as Original Equipment (OE) and marked Lotus "LTS" on the sidewall.

[windy]

Graham.  The MSA are actually quite precise in their answer and I think know the detail.  Rightly or wrongly they are choosing to opt for the legal to sell rather than legal to use stance.  The competition use is a get out to sell them but the MSA don't seem to want to follow this path and want road going tyres to be universally available for sale for road use.  ie you could turn up at quick fit, legally buy tyres and then have them fitted to your car. Other than the fact we have all got used to enjoying the benefits of sticky tyres, you can see the logic to their argument.  I just don't see why they bothered with 1C in this case.

Yet FIA regs, which the MSA are trying to adopt, state they must be road legal! 

[John Loudon - Sponsorship Liaison]

I have replied with this:

 

Hi Michael,

 

Thank you for your response. I understand the EU/EEC regulations regarding tyres but that wasn’t really my point. My point was that the majority of list 1C tyres are E marked and legal for use on the public highways so therefore are road legal.

 

My concern is that if something cannot be done regarding this situation, future choice of suitable tyres for road going specialist production cars. kit cars in particular, is severely limited for existing competitors as well as outlawing many sets of existing perfectly good tyres already in existence that until now have been perfectly suitable. Newcomers to our sport will also become disillusioned due to the lack of choice and strict regulations regarding their entry into our sport. Let us not forget that a good number of newcomers to our sport start in the road going specialist production car (kit car) classes as speed events.

 

With this in mind, surely could not the MSA can incorporate something into their own regulations to allow their use for certain types of cars as an exception for the numerous reasons that I pointed out in my initial email to overcome the issue for our types of cars?

 

Best wishes

 

John Loudon

[Terry Everall]

Graham...apology mate I forgot Nick's excellent answer from the MSA about not needing a Logbook if presented in Road Going form , MOT, Tax, Insurance except for 1C tyres

[windy]

I've also sent this:

 

Dear Mr. Duncan,

 

Could you please clarify why you will not be allowing Emarked list 1C tyres to be used in the roadgoing classes for sprints and hillclimbs in 2016?

 

Background:

• ECE regulation 1222 applies to all new tyres sold in the EU.
• Tyres must comply with this regulation to retain their Emark but there are exceptions outlined in article 2.
• http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/ALL/?uri=CELEX%3A32009R1222

Kumho have said to me all their V70A tyres will continue to be sold with their Emark. The softer compounds will be marked "for competition use" in order to comply with article 2 of ECE reg 1222.

 

The MSA already recognises that all Emarked tyres are road legal, does it not?

 

Why therefore have you decided to exclude certain Emarked tyres from use in the road going classes?

 

Best regards

 

Graham Millar

[Meteor Motorsport]

Hi Guys  Just FYI I had a long and clear conversation with Avon and the ZZR will continue to be manufactured in A24 (Super Soft) compound for as long as they have a demand.  They only need to make 10 car sets at a time.  There is already some demand abroad so they see no reason that demand will drop below this level.  

 

This has been important for L7C as we are considering how many classes should/could move to mod prod.  Certainly our BEC and 260+ bhp class will go that way.

 

Part of our consideration is that in a couple of years F rated tyres will also be excluded from road going.  The favoured tyre for L7C in list 1A is the Yoko 539.  This is F rated.  We are therefore trying to look a little further than just this current change!

 

We will all be running around on wooden tyres soon!!

[windy]

We will all be running around on wooden tyres soon!!

In 2017 you'll get to vote against this happening

[XTR2Turbo]

Key here is the clause 'vehicles intended exclusively for racing' and I think especially the word 'exclusively'.

 

It's a mess but I see from this how the msa have reached their position ... especially if lawyers involved.