Tyre question re Toyo T1R

[kmd1154]

As I was stepping into my Westy today a chap approached, said 'nice car, what make is it?' and so began a conversation I suspect many many of you have had over the years. Turns out he runs a small rallye car and owns a Lotus Elise as well. We got to talking about modifications and I mentioned I was wanting to change my tyres for Toyo's . He said he may be able to assist with some advice here as he'd accrued a bit of experience of the brand over the years.

 

He mentioned the T888's and spoke very highly of them, and he also mentioned the T1R and the R1R, saying that one of them was OK but the other was designed for a higher weight of vehicle and on lightweight sports cars didn't get properly up to temperature so performed less well (on the road, not the track). Problem is, despite me asking him again, I can't remember which one he said was which !

 

So can I ask for views please. Anyone shed some light for me ?

 

[CraigHew]

the R1Rs are used widley (ive got them on mine) the issue is that due to some Euro-ruling they're now being phased out.  I think the T1Rs are Toyo's replacement model, but the tread pattern is a lot more like a conventional car's road tyre.

 

I can't comment on the T1R in the real world but I'm sure someone on here will have experience of them.

 

 

Search this forum for T1R and or R1R as there are lots of historical posts regarding them

[kmd1154]

Thanks Craig.

[kmd1154]

Found a couple of threads concerning these tyres, and while the opinions are mixed it seems on balance the T1R is rated as a decent enough road tyre, which is what I'm looking for. One contributor mentioned that "not many of us will out perform a T1R on the road" while a few have questioned their track credentials. So I'm getting a reasonable idea I think.

[Rhett Turner - Black Country AO]

I ran T1Rs on my Westfield for the first 3 years but decided to change to R1Rs because of the good reviews I'd read, I saw some at a good price and knew they were becoming rare plus I'd done a load of overtime so had some spare cash so purchased some, though they sat in the garage for about 6 months before I swapped to them at the same time as switching to a Momo steering wheel (from the standard IVA model) .

 

I never really had any complaints about the T1Rs (or the standard steering wheel) but the difference is very noticeable even on the road, there is more grip  and the feel through the wheel is better. On the track the difference is even more noticeable. 

[SootySport]

R1R's all the way.     Good allrounder on wet and dry roads and wet and dry track.  T1r's are no match for them on a light car, they are for heavier vehicles.  Mind you, they will last forever on a Westfield, not what you want.   888's are best on the track but many use them on the road although things can get dodgy on very wet roads and tend to tramline when a bit of wear sets in.  You'll have trouble finding them now as they don't generally sell them in the UK but you'll find them on a German Tyre Distributor such Oponeo.

 

I've used all three, so can vouch for their performance on Road & Track.

[darve]

Nankang ns2r are a good value alternative to r1rs

Medium compounds will be good for road

I'm tempted to try soft next time round

[kmd1154]

Thanks for your comments, appreciate it.

[stephenh]

T1R and R1R are as different as chalk and cheese.

The T1R is a road tyre, in motorsport parlance it is a "List 1A" tyre, that is it is approved by the MSA for standard or near standard production cars in motorsport. The R1R on the other hand is a "List 1B" tyre, that is in effect trackday tyres. It happens to be a good tyre for high performance road driving on a light car like a Westfield, in my opinion. It is by road tyre standards a soft tyre, but still hard by motorsport standards, and its tread pattern means that it handles on a wet road much better than a lot of the more track orientated trackday tyres such as the Toyo 888 and the Avon ZZR.

The T1R certainly isn't a replacement for the R1R, in fact I think it was launched before the R1R, it actually replaced the similar T1S I believe.

There is however a new trackday tyre from Toyo which I think is called the R888R which may (or may not!) end up replacing the R1R and the 888 as so far as I can see it is somewhere in between the 2 in terms of its tread pattern at any rate.

[DE04*]

Had T1R's with the kit i got from Westfield,i thought they were good i used on road and lots of track days but they don't wear out they are to hard. I bought my self a set of 13 inch rims and put R888's on and put R1R's on my 15 inch rims. Both have so much more grip on the road and track. As an all rounder i would say R1R's wet and dry road and track.

[Dave Eastwood (Gadgetman) - Club Chairman]

As has been said, the the T1R is nothing to do with the R1R, it's been around for many years before the R1R was launched. 

 

The T1R is a performance tyre designed for performance tin tops, and as such, while it does work well on a Westfield, is really designed for something heavier, so is harder than necessary. In short, it's an "ordinary" tyre.

 

R1R's on the other hand, just like R888's and the new R888R replacement for the R888 belong to that specialised group of tyres known as "track day" tyres. These use specialised tyre compounds that are much softer than normal tyres, specialised, sometimes almost non-existent(!) tread patterns and are designed purely for ultimate grip and handling with no regard for tyre life, road noise etc.

 

R1R's are slightly unusual, in that Toyo took all their knowledge of specialised track day tyres and designed a tyre that could be used on the road, all year round in all weathers; as a result, while it still uses the extreme compounds like other track day offerings, it has a tread pattern designed to clear lots, and I mean LOTS of water - the rooster tales they generate on wet roads are astounding, but then the level of grip and sure-footedness you feel on wet roads is equally astounding!

 

Any Westfield owner that can't feel the difference between an R1r and a T1R really needs to consider selling up and buying one of these!   

[Dave Eastwood (Gadgetman) - Club Chairman]

...Forgot to add, some do like running more basic road tyres on their Westfields, and theirs nothing wrong with that. Most seem to do it for a combination of the lower cost of the tyres, and funnily enough, preferring the lower grip such tyres have.

 

Of you are someone who likes to, ahem, get the back end out on public roads, then the trackday tyres have so much grip, it takes a lot of aggression to get them to slide and sometimes you have to be going fast, compared to normal road tyres.

[BenD]

i read an interseting thread the other day on mx5nutz about the toyo tyres having soft sidewalls this may not effect the running on a westfeild being so light but the people over there were slating them quite badly as darve said most of them were running nankangs ill see if i can find the thread

[Onliest Smeg David]

Agree with Stephenh and DE04

IMO T1Rs Good tyre but better off with softer rubber on a Westfield. T1Rs on my Fabia were lasting 24k so will degrade well before waring out on Westie.

Although I learn't a lot about handling when I had T1Rs on my Westie on track!

[dombanks]

I've had t1rs on my westy for years, they really don't wear out and its not like I drive like miss daisy.

 

For me they are a decent road tire and if your budget cant stretch to anything more expensive you cant go too wrong. both wet and dry grip is fine and when they do want to let go I find they are relatively predictable. I've never had the r1r or 888 so cant compare back to back with the t1r but if your after decent road tires and that's all you can afford then they are not a bad choice.

 

I've done a few track days on them and was not unhappy about their performance or gip either. I did not get the problem of bits of tire getting stuck into the tread that some people report but that could have been due to the track days being in November so the ambient being cooler.