Nick Algar - Competition Secretary Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 I wonder how easy it'll be to prove a roll bar or cage meets msa requirements. I can see next season becoming a right farce, depending on how finicky scrutineers are going to be on evidence of homologation/certification. I wouldn't think it will be a big problem. Most scrutineers know what an MSA spec roll bar looks like Don't forget despite some comments they do actually want to pass your car and be helpful to allow you to compete. It's why you often hear comments such as "get that sorted for next event" 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graham frankland Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 Terry Suggest you direct your question at Caged and or the MSA I an only the messenger of what I was able to find out. I have today received my Certificate so hopefully I should have what maybe required next year! Graham Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Everall Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 Graham So did your Cage not have a sliver sticker on it ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Algar - Competition Secretary Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 IDIOTS GUIDE - I hope OK, from Jan 2016 you will need to have a Roll Bar which meets MSA Yearbook Specification K.1.6.1 or K.1.6.2 now where most people go wrong is to immediately start looking at the diagrams DONT. Instead read the wording in section K.1.6.1 or K.1.6.2 here https://www.msauk.org/assets/156-195commonregulationsforcompetitorssafetyk-1.pdf then as you are reading this it will refer you to the diagrams at the back of the section. It is also important to read section K.1.6.4 which gives you how high the bar needs to be together with other consideration that you should take into account. So that's the technical stuff and you really need to refer to that to decide, BUT FOR THOSE THAT JUST WANT A QUICK AND EASY SUMMARY ( this is just my opinion, so no liability implied or accepted) You want a bar to drawing no 1 on page 178. It should have the rear diagonals welded at the top, the bottom of the main hoop should be welded to plates which bolt onto the top of the chassis just behind the seats, it must be 5cm above the top of your helmet. The rear diagonals often need to be able to have a variable length due to slight differences in chassis manufacture from Westifeld, So often sliding tubes with reinforced mounting will be used and then bolted through each diagonal. The size and material is specified in K wording. So does a bar need to have a certificate NO, you can make one provided you are competent person, use the materials specified and meets the specification. My cage is FIA or MSA certified but doesn't meet the size specs in the wording ? This is NOT a problem, at the time of certification the cage design will have been submitted to the FIA or MSA and once approved can then continue to be manufactured to that design and material specifications. You should have either the Approval sticker on the cage or the paperwork to prove it, however the reality is that very few scrutineers will ask for this as they recognise the cages and know they are approved. But if you turn up with an obvious homemade one they may ask questions and check a bit more. Overall don't panic about this too much, however as has already been pointed out the factory RAC bar with rose joints at the top and bottom of the rear diagonals will NOT be acceptable due to the use of rose joints and smaller diameter tube. Hope that all helps, Nick 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete g Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Everall Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 Thats a great help Nick Some guys have Roll over bars that have the rear struts welded at the top but use Rose joints at the bottom to assist with matching up the tolerances and fitting to the chassis brackets. Is this ok ? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Algar - Competition Secretary Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 Thats a great help Nick Some guys have Roll over bars that have the rear struts welded at the top but use Rose joints at the bottom to assist with matching up the tolerances and fitting to the chassis brackets. Is this ok ? Terry, this is one of those grey areas where I couldn't give a definite answer. This have been used on cages as well, which have been approved, so may be OK. But is best to check with a scrutineer or MSA this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Everall Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 I don't have the problem but some might Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B.RAD Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 Thanks Nick, much appreciated Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodman Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 Well it seems to me that my cage wont comply unless I mod the rear braces which are rose jointed at present. Ironically I could remove the cage and fit a much leass safe ( imho) roll hoop and welded brace. Shame we dont go the same way as Autograss and Stuff the MSA with all their overpriced add ons. I dont see that its worth me bothering next year as the T0ssers have also deemed my 4 year old helmet U/S Anyone want to buy a sorted sprint car - albeit with a U/S cage - spose I could sell cage to track day warrior 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Algar - Competition Secretary Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 Well it seems to me that my cage wont comply unless I mod the rear braces which are rose jointed at present. Ironically I could remove the cage and fit a much leass safe ( imho) roll hoop and welded brace. Shame we dont go the same way as Autograss and Stuff the MSA with all their overpriced add ons. I dont see that its worth me bothering next year as the T0ssers have also deemed my 4 year old helmet U/S Anyone want to buy a sorted sprint car - albeit with a U/S cage - spose I could sell cage to track day warrior Stu, it's worth getting your local scrutineer to check as I know of other cages that use them and as it's a cage I personally don;t see a problem because like you I feel much safer with a cage on. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodman Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 Thanks Nick Perhaps I will get them to look at Loton on Sunday pm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Loudon - Sponsorship Liaison Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 Stu, it's worth getting your local scrutineer to check as I know of other cages that use them and as it's a cage I personally don;t see a problem because like you I feel much safer with a cage on. Problem is Stu added tubing to an RAC bar with rose joints to make his cage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spm Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 ..... So apart from Westfields own MSA approved bar and I probably one direct from Caged (I recall theirs was a bit taller), anyone know who else's sells or could fabricate an MSA "spec" roll bars (they don't have to be approved for Road Going Specialist) . Cheers Simon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Everall Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 Plays-kool Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.