WSCC Speed Series Class discussion

[B.RAD]

That sounds good to me David

[graham frankland]

My input is very simple

In 2005 I bought a 1400 cc K series Westfield because it was a great buy and I always wanted a "seven" style kit car

I soon realised after a few track days that the car was terribly under powered and I was not a very quick driver but I loved the "Westie"

I also joined the Westfield Car Club to meet other like minded owners who soon introduced me to sprinting

I had no previous experience of Sprinting or Hill Climbs

I considered addressing my lack of power and found out the K series could reasonably easily be upgraded to 1800 cc and along the way I was told that it was a class limit in the Speed Series if I wanted to get involved in the future

So money was spent with Dave Andrews and after much badgering from Matt H and Keith Adams I finally signed up for the Speed Series

Although I was a better driver than before I could not hold a candle to any of the guy's in the Speed Series

Most of you know the rest of the story and I have stuck with it through thick and thin and enjoy everything about the speed series every time I touch it. I am still disappointed with my lack of not posting the best times but I challenge myself in all conditions and my wife loves the amount of time I spend working on by beloved Westie

I believe I have improved my driving over the years and have enhanced the technical side of the car as my budget has allowed.

I started as a Novice in the Speed Series and was not aware/interested in any other organisations events

I for one believe the Speed Series formulae works for most!

I see no reason to change to 1700 cc just to align ourselves with other event regulations, if we want to honour the venerable Crossflow we could introduce Crossflow class/classes in the Speed Series

BHP/Ton seems to be an admin/control nightmare!

I have no problem with the introduction of another "Intermediate" class as I still do not consider myself an Expert!

Each category of driver could compete in any type of car based upon different target times for each driver category

The reduction of events makes no sense as it is currently tough to get in the 10 events within reasonable cost/travelling distance as it is (without taking into account holidays in Spain etc)

From a variety of circuit point of view I would like to see some new venues but that may not be possible if we have to drop some existing ones to fit them in!

We need to get this proposed Tyre Change sorted before we even consider any other changes to the current speed series format please!

Thanks for reading

Graham aka Gluten Free

[alexander72]

great post Gluten free. 

 

Whatever is decided I think i will oil down the old cross flow for next season :-) 

[Onliest Smeg David]

A few have made reference to discrepancy between classes.....

e.g. Aintree

AINTREE CLASS A (novice)     B (novice)     C (expert)     D (expert)  

RESULTS   TT- time- name,   TT -time- name,   TT- time -name,   TT- time- name  

YEAR                                

2007   55.29 S Pritchard         n/a                      50.1 K Bamber                    47.25 A Mason  

2008   63.38 A Woodhouse     56.24                  49.82 J Louden                  53.65 P Edden  

2009   57.59 T Cottingham     55.68 A Ballantine     51.57 M Leybourne     n/a    

2010  49.82 n/a                       47.25 53.34 S Everall   49.82 52.35 I Davenport   47.25 n/a    

2011  50.1 55.46 expert, T Cottingham   48.09 n/a     no rec n/a     no rec 48.09 H Gaskin      

           64.12 J Williams                          

2012  50.1 60.63 J Williams   49.7 n/a     no rec 46.98 J Louden                48.09 46.82 J Hoyle  

2013      n/a                             47.643 51.62 P Nichols   46.98 46.51 J Louden   46.97 46.26 J Hoyle    

          47.82 61.04 J Williams                                                                    46.97 46.13 J Hoyle  

2014  50.1 59.54 J Williams   49.71 48.87 P Nichols     n/a                    46.13 45.35 J Hoyle    

          50.1 60.04 J Williams   49.71 52.16 L Smith     n/a                       46.13 45.59 J Hoyle  

2015  47.44 54.82 D Richings   46.25 50.91 L Smith   46.51 n/a          45.35 47.9 S Herbert

 

The best actual time in class B is Phil at 3.5 seconds behind John in class D, BUT the % calculated target time is only 1 second different!

 

I agree with those suggesting we should make more of the in Class Championships, however we need more entrants as some classes have only a few entries.

I believe a minimum of 6-8 competitors is what we should be aiming for for all classes.

 

SO we're back to doing more to encourage more Speed Series competitors to get involved and keep involved.

 

What would attract newbies? Expand Novice class categories? There are a fair few standard road 1.8 zetec and Mazda SDV out here to tempt into class A. 

What would keep new and slower experts? Intermediate status? This would motivate ex Novices and slower experts to continue competing through a better likelyhood of fighting for positions.

Both of these would require marketing so that increased entries to justify the new categories.

 

As Rich said - "are we as a Club promoting the Championship enough, do people actually know what it is?", is it marketed enough in the right way? 

 

Nick said this is about " going forward with a view to taking a long term approach and trying to set the classes for say the next 5 years." not rushing into changes for 2016.

So Graham is right to suggest we see what comes out of the potential tyre reg impact as these will have to be incorporated into the class structure.

[windy]

Windy has started entering a class with a whole mixture of cars from his Escort to minis and Ginetta.

 

They have a handicap / class structure based on power to weight with driver.  At some events the organiser takes some scales so you can weigh the car.  Powers are self declared but I guess they could ask for proof if there seemed to be someone that stood out.

 

Are there reasons why we don't do this rather than have the engine cc distinction?

As a newcomer to this system and now having done 2 events I think it is a great way of scoring. It brings everyone's times very close together. It takes out the money, weight, tyre type, and power advantages out of the equation and enables one to focus purely on driving ability.

I've competed in the speed series from the beginning, probably near to 20 years now. The handicap system feels to me very much like the early days of the speed series. We all had very similar cars, similar engines and similar tyres then. The sport was also much more affordable and there were fewer rules for the novices to get confused about.

[B.RAD]

After a good conversation at our area meeting last night, here's my suggestion for classes going forward:

Make the Novice Championship separate from the overall Championship. Introduce an Intermediate Championship - A1, B1 (also separate). More prizes, trophies, awards etc available in each Championship to keep motivation high and increase long term participation. So a Novice doesn't place in the overall Championship - they can still be shown on Tiggers website but there are separate Championships at play.

You move through championships once you start posting times within 'x' % of the next level (would need to sit down and work this out exactly, but for the sake of the example lets call it 2%). So once a Novice starts posting times within 2% of the Intermediate times, next year they move up. Once an Intermediate starts posting times within 2% of the Experts, next season they move up. Championship winners move up too. Times for each championship are more generous (again need to invest done time to this, but for now let's say Novice would be D plus 8%, Intermediate would be D plus 4%) to enable people to get closer to the times, feel the reward & motivation to keep going.

Again, more reward for each level - perhaps small trophies or plaques could be sent to the relevant class winner after each event? Or as MAC do, a discount off an entry fee, store merchandise or club membership that can be stored up? Or a choice of the above.

Rules for classes remain the same, the current stipulation by engine size and gearbox makes sense and means any car can come and be competitive in Novice or Intermediate. Then the current C,D and beyond regs apply to the expert or overall Championship.

Formalise a 'buddy' system or make a forum posting where Novices and Intermediates can ask to be supported by someone with the space to bring along their spare wheels and gear, if they've got them, so more people can drive to events.

More repeat events like MIRA where we can go to a venue twice a year, my votes for these are Rockingham, Blyton, Gurston, Three Sisters. I agree with Marto that the best events are the well attended ones so reducing events would support that, however I also agree that more events is a good thing and makes it more accessible. A good compromise would be to repeat events within a season so everyone can get to them.

That's it for now, day off today!

Cheers, Barny.

[stephenh]

In the light of the announcement today about the result of the consultation on the proposed MSA tyre rules change, I would now suggest that no substantial changes be made to our Speed Series rules. I think the existing classes, and the existing scoring system, work very well.

[Scottish Bloke]

Someone give Stephen a biscuit, and make it a chocky one!

[stephenh]

Someone give Stephen a biscuit, and make it a chocky one!

Would that be a chocolate Hobnob by any chance?

Yumyum!!

[alexander72]

Wot StephenH said :-)

[Onliest Smeg David]

With almost 1/2 the number of Novices entered this year, don't stick heads in the sand.

We need future sustainability for the SS.

[Paul Aspden]

With almost 1/2 the number of Novices entered this year, don't stick heads in the sand.

We need future sustainability for the SS.

As a novice, What attracted you to the speed series, and what concerns did you have that can now be addressed?

Can anyone else who has recently joined the speed series answer this too please, I think it may be useful.

[pickmaster Andy Lowe]

Very good news about the tyres

I'm not and never going to be a competitive driver but the speed series has enabled me to develope my car into a fairly fast track oriatanted road / track day car and I now love it just the way it is

If I was more competitive to keep up with the pack I would have to mod the car in a way that would make it start to lose its road appeal

Having said that I love the free hand to adjust and develope the cars to the max and would not like to see that restricted in any way for those that choose that route

So after what might be a contradiction let's keep what works well for most and is great for the spectators and the marque

[alexander72]

I like the speed series as it gave me a chance to drive quicker than i do on the road.  Looking forward to getting back to it ASAP.  (running competition horses this year and need a holiday) 

 

Budget is my restriction but I will be back.

 

Enjoyed campaigning the old cross flow too,

 

James 

[Onliest Smeg David]

As a novice, What attracted you to the speed series, and what concerns did you have that can now be addressed?

Can anyone else who has recently joined the speed series answer this too please, I think it may be useful.

 

All my life I've competed, whether it be horses, dog agility, raquet sports, mountain marathons, swimming or just scabble and cards!

And often on the podiums at my level/class.

Although a while ago injuries had prevented physical competition.

 

I'd wanted something sevenesque ever since experiencing the passenger seat of my Grandpa's friends original Lotus 7.

And I was always going to end up doing some track or competition (probably autosolo type)

 

We moved house and our current neighbour competed in the Speed Series.

So after looking at the regs I went for a 1.8 zetec Road car. Had shocks and geo.

My first seasons sprinting (2013) was supported by loan PPE, and I drove to the 2 events. Average points 81.08.

Second season (2014) it was clear that due to moving goal posts (1B tyres and no windscreen required) I would have to invest if I didn't want the wooden spoon. Invested in PPE and 1B tyres/13" wheels and driver training. Improved, average points score to 92.86. I drove the Westie to a few events.

This year fitted ARBs, had a more track orientated Geo and received further ARDS driver training. Have decided to do 10 events but starting to question this as my times are significantly improved this year BUT my current average points score is lower than last. BUT completely loving the competition experience and pit banter/comeradery AND very pleased with my progress.

I feel the new 1.6e rules are good, but that the average % difference between class target times is flawed due to the differing nature of the tracks/hill climbs. The Novice championship top drivers in 2012-2014 did not achieve any of this years target times.

 

I still would not be able to compete without the support and help of speed series friends, especially John Williams, as it's very difficult to drive to events when pure sprint tyres are a necessity of competition.

 

2016? Without progressing to a pure sprint car (& be honest - the majority of road going are NOT Road cars in reality) I will only likely dabble with a few events, but could not see me giving up entirely as it's toooo much fun in and out of the Westie.

 

 

TYRES - the tyre issue I believe has not gone away, just been delayed. EU Road legal tyre Regs are changing and that can only impact on grip available for road going classes eventually.

Two competitors at Anglesey told me they had been unable to get supersoft sprint tyres to compete on due to the supplier informing them that they were now not road legal and labelled with 'competition use only'