s2rrr Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 A comment previously about the majority of cyclists being well behaved unfortunately I don't agree with. It seems nowadays that the norm is to weave through traffic. Place your cycle in front of the car you've just undertaken and sit smugly whilst you stop the car moving off when the lights change. That is also on top of the usual incompetence shown by the bikers. I admit " my names Bob and I am an occasional cyclist" that I have started the practise of slipping through red lights on a left turn only I may add when its safe to proceed. I have seen daily the motorist who passes a bike then pulls straight in front of them/me, not helpful and usually gets a rap on the window and a b*llocking. The norm is now to ride through traffic without due care and attention, to force your way through ridiculous gaps, because you can, but not safely, and only the other night on my way to the WSCC meet down a relatively narrow A/B road in pitch darkness a peleton if that's what they are called riding with plenty of lights on but three abreast blocking the whole of "my" lane off. My wife is a modern cyclist and I dread when she goes out because almost every time she does she either falls off or has someone "run" into her. She is a mobile disaster on a bike and shouldn't be encouraged. Common sense and good instruction has gone beyond this generation of cyclists. I may have mentioned this incident before but a young guy where I used to work would ride like a complete tw*t he was personally told by me that if he continued riding like that he would be barred from site and worse still have an accident. Several months later he was riding into work head down ar*e up and inadvertently rode straight into the back of a parked range rover on a fully straight road in good visibility. He smashed the rear screen and suffered fairly significant head injuries, 50+ stitches but it could have been far worse he could have killed himself. Did he learn his lesson, No he continues to ride inconsiderately and has conveniently forgotten the disruption he caused whilst ambulances and wives were being informed. Blissfully unaware. Also why do cyclists think that lights are not mandatory and then most if they do have a light only have rears, great if you in a car and are stopped turning left and can't see them sliding alongside you in the dark. On the upside I do come across the odd decent rider. Only last night a guy turning left in front of me in the centre of the road fully kitted out in a hi-vis jacket etc had me wondering but he immediately turned right once on the crossing road and was actually doing a good job so my initial frustration was ill founded. Therefore I do agree with some form of registration and identity for cyclists, whilst helping the countries lard ar*es get fitter its encouraging numpties ( cylists) to mix with other numpties (motorists) and the result is what we see on the head cams on U tube etc. Not pretty and almost always avoidable. Its good in the Netherlands because they have massively segregated cylces and cars and it works pretty well there. Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dombanks Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 i dont miss the cyclists on my way to work now i dont go to the city center, the habitual constant red light jumping and general bad cycling i experienced constantly every day. it wasnt the few it was the many. yes there were some who were not bad but most just didnt give a flying rats ass and imho put themselves in dangerous positions. anyhoo im probably one of those intolerant car drivers.... how very dare I. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dommo Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 People are dumb. We just find different ways of showing it. On the roads, at work, down the pub. The dumb ones show because they stand out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyonspride Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 It seems nowadays that the norm is to weave through traffic. Place your cycle in front of the car you've just undertaken and sit smugly whilst you stop the car moving off This is what they're encouraged to do, it's to make sure the driver has seen them, so that when the lights change the driver doesn't try to race off ahead and "left hook" them (which is THE primary cause of cyclist deaths). When I was 17, just starting my first job, I stopped at a set of lights next to a car (which had been behind me), as we pulled away the driver starting turning left, I was knocked down and the bike went under his rear wheels, the driver did not stop, I had a twisted ankle, bruising to my left shoulder, road rash on my left leg, I needed a new bike and a new helmet. Things like riding in the middle of the road, something they do if an overtake would be dangerous, like in the example I gave in my last post, the cyclist should have taken the lane to stop the guy overtaking on the blind bend. What drivers often see as inconsiderate, cyclists see as safety measures. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pistonbroke Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 They should all be licensed , pay RFD pass a proficencey test and have registration plates fitted as do motorbikes , so they can be made to comply with the law Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allegory Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 http://www.theaa.com/motoring_advice/safety/cyclists-and-drivers-sharing-the-road.html This has some pretty balanced advice rather than the general bemoaning of either side - unfortunately, i think the following is often where drivers and cyclists come into conflict because it is a deliberate attempt at blocking and in my personal experience has resulted in abuse and the punishment overtake. Ride assertively, away from the gutter. If the road is too narrow for vehicles to pass you safely, it may be better to ride in the middle of the lane to prevent dangerous overtaking. The debate can and will go on forever and I make no apologies for siding with the cyclist as they pay with their lives regardless of "who" is to blame. Still love the westfield experience though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyonspride Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 They should all be licensed , pay RFD pass a proficencey test and have registration plates fitted as do motorbikes , so they can be made to comply with the law If they did, they'd be even more of a nuisance, they'd be much more assertive, they'd be in the middle of the road a lot (potentially for several miles on narrow roads). It's not proficiency that's the problem, it's the drivers idea that they are somehow more entitled to be there. It's exactly why Winston Churchill abolished actual road tax in 1936, to stop drivers assuming they have more right to be there. Sure it was probably more for the benefit of horse riders, but it's still valid. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s2rrr Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 As in driving the Westfield and any other form of transport if you drive defensively and have a heightened awareness of the safety aspects of what you are doing it will reduce the likelihood of having an incident. Most people seem too preoccupied with eating there breakfast, drinking the coffee, putting on there makeup, shouting at the kids, etc etc etc the very last thing they are doing is being in control of a deadly weapon the other roads users, either car or flimsy bike will provide more of a target in which you could very easily be killed. I was on my bike last Sunday, a very quiet period and the only cars I came across, girl on her phone, guy going round a mini roundabout with his breakfast in a tray on his lap, old biddy going to church drove up the kerb at 10mph on a 45 degree bend. Didn't stay out long, decided enough was enough. About the comment concerning bikers making themselves more visible by ensuring they are in front of cars is ok ish, but who has priority the first one on the scene or the guy who has slid up the side and snook into the queue, granted you can't sit all day with your left hand indicator on surely some common sense and awareness is needed. My edict of treating all other users as potential idiots sort of works as people are human and humans make mistakes or confirm their incompetence. You can't be aware when you are riding or even walking/running with the earphones in is or are distracted by everything else other than what you are actually doing, so don't get miffed by the fact that if you aren't concentrating don't blame the guy who is aware. But I guess if one is aware there wouldn't be an incident more a near miss and that's why the sensible group get a bit p*ssed off by the group who don't give a sh*t. Now I spend more time at home I notice that weekday driving is a nightmare all the Sunday motorists are out in force, is this something I have to look forward to. At least in the commute people would actually get a move on and reach a reasonable speed. Yesterday it was ages getting above 25mph, is that what the greyheads do. I'm bailing out of that one and this now. Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mi7rennie Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 As a Westy driver, cyclist and person I can understand everyone's frustration at poor riding / driving. I'm constantly frustrated behind the wheel by other drivers lack of foresight and planning and I'm terrified on the bike at some of the unthinking idiocy I see on the roads. The main issue as a cyclist is when a driver makes a mistake overtaking in the wrong spot they will often chose to collide with the squashy object on their left rather that the 1.5ton plus speeding metal object approaching them head on. This is how my friend was killed while out cycling on a A road, a van driver unthinkingly tried to pass where the wasn't enough room, was met by and oncoming car and the van driver pulled into my friend Grant, killing him. It was a straight road with good viability. This is the sort of thing on my mind when I ' take the lane' to try and prevent crazy overtaking from drivers, but I'm sad to say this often results in an even crazier pass with the horn depressed. Please be considerate when dealing with cyclists and forgiven their less educated brethren, some may be lemmings but they don't deserve to pay with their lives. These 'bl**** cyclist' type threads and comments just serve to increase the animosity and give justification to moronic drivers to behave even more aggressively towards non vehicular traffic. As Westy drivers I think we should be promoting more inclusive attitudes, we are pretty vulnerable in our little cars after all! /rantmodeoff 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Colonial Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 In the same way that all road users have a duty of care towards the safety of their fellow road users, they should all also have total accountability. If it's on the road, it should have a number plate, and I've long advocated that - and that includes mobility scooter users, many of who are using the roads illegally and think the rules don't apply to them. We've all seen or been hindered by someone on one of the things doing about 8 mph down the road. I've even seen someone on a mobility scooter on a dual carriageway. (I heard a comedian use the term "obesecycles" for the ones used by people who aren't disabled, just vastly overweight.) This would also potentially reduce cycle theft. With the death of the tax disc, the police are now using ANPR more and more to detect cars without tax / insurance / MOT or stolen, and this could be extended to bicycles as well. I will never understand why we persist in letting people manufacture their own number plates - ludicrous in the extreme when you consider all the clonings and thefts. They should be made and distributed only by the government as they are in almost all of the rest of the world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mi7rennie Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 I agree regarding traceability of bikes and riders breaking the law, do you really think that sort of idea can help protect the most vulnerable road users or do anything to prevent accidents or even hold ups? To do that we would need far more police on our roads to stop dangerous behaviour, rather than sending fines and points in retrospect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyonspride Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 do you really think that sort of idea can help protect the most vulnerable road users or do anything to prevent accidents or even hold ups? Well, no of course not and at the end of the day, the real reason cyclists get so much crap is because they're seen as "lower class, can't afford a car, queue jumpers". People want to see them doing naughty things (no not that ), because it's justifies their belief that cyclists are all bad. Tribal mentality, combined with the British class system and the very British thing that we all know as the "queue", which in the road going definition means all roads are a queue, no matter the speed limit, any and all overtakers are rude and ignorant. And to balance this, the most annoying cyclist i've ever come across..... Rides in the middle of the lane up to a set of traffic lights, holding back 10-15 cars, I didn't overtake because the lights could have changed at any moment, leaving me squashing said cyclist as I turn left, we get to the lights just as they go red, ok fair enough, but now the cyclist mounts kerb and rides around the red lights.... I was bl**** seething Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John K Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 In my humble opinion if it is on the road, it should be insured, be uniquely identifiable and pay some sort of tax This should apply to horses as well, in fact I regard them as one of the biggest risks of all. Bikes do not have a mind of their own. Horses can do some extremely unpredictable things and yes, I understand that my Westie coughing and farting on a gentle overtake can spook them, but so can an empty packet of crisps or their own shadow. Or a hedge... With cyclists, living in the country I don't have problems with the city risk takers and to be honest most social riders on the country lanes are pretty decent and pull over or give a wave if you give them plenty of room. I struggle with the attitude of the cycling clubs, when you come come across 30 cyclist in matching Lycra on a Sunday morning. The problem is they totally fill the lane and they are moving at a fair lick, so quick that you need to do a proper over take to get past. And sorry but that makes them the same as an HGV in terms of an obstacle. And HGVs pay tax and are insured. Also they seem to have a very militant attitude and almost relish the fact they are in the way but feel the law is on their side. That is one of the reasons I have a RoadHawk in the car. I will not be a pillock, but when they are, I a will have it on video. As most folk have said, respect from all sides will make this all go away... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allegory Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 I struggle with the attitude of the cycling clubs, when you come come across 30 cyclist in matching Lycra on a Sunday morning. The problem is they totally fill the lane and they are moving at a fair lick, so quick that you need to do a proper over take to get past. And sorry but that makes them the same as an HGV in terms of an obstacle. And HGVs pay tax and are insured. Also they seem to have a very militant attitude and almost relish the fact they are in the way but feel the law is on their side. I am not sure I follow this - tax is paid on emissions so surely we can let this one rest (plus,I also have 2 cars so i personally think i've paid enough). Also, I'm sure most clubs have some form of insurance if it is an organised club ride. I recall this was a bit of an issue for the WSCC when organising road trips but happy to be corrected. I believe the law is on their side as in, only overtake when safe to do so. Therefore, I accept treating them like a tractor, HGV, towed caravan etc and so get delayed accordingly. No excuse for militant attitude though. We might as well demand jaywalking to be made illegal too unless people wear numberplates, have insurance and pass a stringent safety awareness course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Everall Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 Just for the record all traffic lights in York city centre have a special zoned area ( full road width) at the front of all queues at traffic lights and its for BIKES not cars so if people ride past you and then wait in front of you they are just obeying the rules. It is all quite a complicated argument and I get frustrated with cyclist when driving and with car drivers when cycling if they don't leave room as they pass you or ignore my hand signals when I turn corners Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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