Immigration

[Norman Verona]

Yet another half baked plan by the Tories but driven by UKIP.

 

Am I being simple when I say we should change our benefit system so that we only pay immigrants the same as they would get in their own countries. This could be for the first 5 years or after they had paid tax  and NI for 2 years.

 

However, having said that, as far as I can see most eastern European migrants come her to work and earn money, not for benefits.

[M444TTB]

Given how things usually work in this country the benefits system would become more complex and therefore expensive. Probably wiping out any saving! It wouldn't be so bad if the money was kept in the Uk economy.

[Dave Eastwood (Gadgetman) - Club Chairman]

Yet another half baked plan by the Tories but driven by UKIP.

 

Am I being simple when I say we should change our benefit system so that we only pay immigrants the same as they would get in their own countries. This could be for the first 5 years or after they had paid tax  and NI for 2 years.

 

However, having said that, as far as I can see most eastern European migrants come her to work and earn money, not for benefits.

 

OK, so admittedly this may be a uniquely Cheshire (and possibly London?) thing, but unfortunately the argument of being here to work, ploughing money back etc, just doesn't stack up well.

 

The two opposites I see a lot of, and are very, very common here are eastern european builders and eastern european nanny's!

 

But apart from their countries of origin and language, the biggest thing virtually every one of them has in common, is that they simply do not "spend" in this country. They keep their out goings to an absolute minimum. Even down to accomodation, the nannies live-in, andit's not uncommon to find the builders doing likewise when they can, virtually camping out on site. Where that's prevented then you usually find them all camped out in the fewest rented rooms possible.

 

The usual score, is saving as much money as possible and sending back home to the native country, where it's worth so much more, or the nanny's favourite; they work over here for five to ten years, squirrel away the maximum possible, then return home and buy a house with their savings.*

 

*There is a third way, round the Hale, Altrincham triangle. You see packs of gorgeous young eastern European girls, on their nights off from the kids, out hunting in packs around the more exclusive and expensive bars and clubs! Go in some of those places without a wedding ring, and wearing the right labels/watch, right key fob and you'd swear you'd been transported to Czechoslovakia.

[M444TTB]

What are the names of the clubs and bars you mention....?

[alexander72]

Dave, What labels and watch would you suggest Dave ?     

[Dave Eastwood (Gadgetman) - Club Chairman]

Just head into Knutsford, Hale, Bowden, Altrincham, Hale Barnes, any of those areas. But I warn you, unless your liquid net worth is in six or preferably seven figures, and its shows to a keen eye, you won't get a second glance.

 

Once stood having a drink with a client, and was virtually elbowed out of the way , the client was killing themselves laughing and explained all about it, so we watched the groups circulate for a while...

[alexander72]

go on, someone mention the Altringham Triangle !! 

 

I'm ROTFPMSL here in the office at the thought of the Honey Monster with a big rolex watch on or a TW Steel one, green mankini and so on.......

[SootySport]

Yeh, names of clubs please.  I've got a Timex watch, will that do?

 

The problem is, The UK has to abide by the Freedom of movement act dreamt up by the EU.   We have to give the same benefits to other EU immigrants as do we to the indigenous population.     The system is supposed to mean us UK bods can also live and work in other EU countries and if we fall on lean times are able to claim from the host country any benefits that their indigenous population are entitled to.   Of course their are some EU countries have no benefits system at all, or sneakily make it very difficult for us to claim.

Germany and Sweden seem to be the favourite place for the new wave of East Europeans to migrate to.  The UK will only get the dregs of East Europe coming here.

[Norman Verona]

Dave, as long as they're not claiming benefits and are paying tax and NI it's all we can expect. Many have similar opinions about foreign owned companies in the UK. My view is that as long as they employ people who pay tax and NI and the company pays it's rates and corporation tax they can send the profits home.

 

Another aspect is that the Eastern European workers seem to do the jobs the Brits don't want to do or want to charge £1000 a day for (like plumbing). It's interesting to note that overseas qualifications are not recognised in France. UK doctors cannot work here. UK electricians and gas fitters cannot work here as their certificates aren't valid.

 

The French round up the Gypsy Romanians and ship them back home.

 

Maybe it's about time we copied the French.

[ALLADDIN]

Yet another half baked plan by the Tories but driven by UKIP.

 

Am I being simple when I say we should change our benefit system so that we only pay immigrants the same as they would get in their own countries. This could be for the first 5 years or after they had paid tax  and NI for 2 years.

 

However, having said that, as far as I can see most eastern European migrants come her to work and earn money, not for benefits.

i could not agree more with the first part but remember - once working on minimum wage theres housing benefit, tax benefits, child support for there 18 children back home  etc etc

[stu999]

I often cross paths with a very hard-working and consiencious chap of Polish decent, where fellow Eastern Europeans some of which he knows very well claim benefits. Shock horror I hear you say.

That is bad enough, but they are claiming UK benefits....whilst living the life of Riley back in their home country!!!

[Norman Verona]

I also said:

 

Am I being simple when I say we should change our benefit system so that we only pay immigrants the same as they would get in their own countries. This could be for the first 5 years or after they had paid tax  and NI for 2 years.

 

[XTR2Turbo]

I don't think the benefit issue is an immigrant one.

 

Clearly they have not contributed to the system but then neither I suspect have most of the 'locals' that benefit from it.

 

Indeed, I have seen it stated by one of the taxation analysts that any average family in the UK with one breadwinner earning up to £25k per year and with two children will over their lifetime take out of the system more than they put in.

 

So the problems, where they exist, are the generosity of the welfare system and the overall welfare bill - not immigrants per say.

 

But of the immigrants that I do know, it strikes me that they pay rather less tax than most via their cash in hand businesses.

 

Look here if you want to see the scale of the problem. Government debt about £78k per person now !!! 

 

http://www.iea.org.uk/in-the-media/press-release/uks-true-national-debt-%C2%A348-trillion

 

 

[ALLADDIN]

I don't think the benefit issue is an immigrant one.

 

Clearly they have not contributed to the system but then neither I suspect have most of the 'locals' that benefit from it.

 

Indeed, I have seen it stated by one of the taxation analysts that any average family in the UK with one breadwinner earning up to £25k per year and with two children will over their lifetime take out of the system more than they put in.

 

So the problems, where they exist, are the generosity of the welfare system and the overall welfare bill - not immigrants per say.

 

But of the immigrants that I do know, it strikes me that they pay rather less tax than most via their cash in hand businesses.

 

Look here if you want to see the scale of the problem. Government debt about £78k per person now !!! 

 

http://www.iea.org.uk/in-the-media/press-release/uks-true-national-debt-%C2%A348-trillion

oddly i see more in the quote than the post i quoted ??

 

but anyway, 25k gross - that must be 4k minimum in tax / ni ?   i cant see the child benefit adding up to that amount ?  be interesting to see  figures tho.

[XTR2Turbo]

but anyway, 25k gross - that must be 4k minimum in tax / ni ?   i cant see the child benefit adding up to that amount ?  be interesting to see  figures tho.

They aren't just talking about cash benefits,  there are lot's of other costs and services provided - education, health, pensions etc