guy g Posted June 10, 2003 Share Posted June 10, 2003 It's easy to undestand your frustration Graham - although the situation is hardly unexpected. The reasons for this are the same as the ones expressed in the first place against the argument for classes that diverge from the "national norm". I think though your questions are falling on deaf ears because very few share (or understand) your motivation to compete outside the narrow confines of the Westfield series. Maybe having separate event classes for WSCC competiors is seen as a good thing by some - I think it's a very backward step myself. At the very least it makes it hard to compete on equal terms if you want to do another championship as well. Perhaps the best way to deal with it is not to let on that your doing the Westfield series when you fill the entry form in - that way you'll be in the main class even if the classes get separated. I know that does not help completely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Stanton Posted June 10, 2003 Share Posted June 10, 2003 Guy - Up until MIRA Windy was competing in his Escort So he would never have been in the same class as his Westfield counterparts At MIRA why he wasn't in the 2B event class is beyond me For that decision you would need to speak with the organising club MAC His comments are certainly not falling on deaf ears as regards to the organisers Its is a simple request that to help us with any specific SS queries - that these be put in writing in the correct manner - in order that they may be addressed Guy - Your experience is invaluable and comments always appreciated as a driver in many events Perhaps one day when your racing boots are hung up you will find time to join the WSCC and perhaps be able to assist in championship organisation and utilise your knowledge Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
windy Posted June 12, 2003 Author Share Posted June 12, 2003 Perhaps the best way to deal with it is not to let on that your doing the Westfield series when you fill the entry form in - that way you'll be in the main class even if the classes get separated. I know that does not help completely. If you don't tell the organisers that you are doing the SS do you think this may jeopardise acceptance of entry to events? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatman Posted June 18, 2003 Share Posted June 18, 2003 Are you chaps protesting as vehemently with the organisers of the other sprint championchips you're entered in, or is it just the SS organisers you're picking on? I didn't think there was a "national norm". If there is, what is it, exactly, and can you give us an idea of just how outnumbered our regs are, by supplying a list of Clubs (there must be quite a few) that run events that adhere strictly to this utopian ideal? Then perhaps the SS organisers would have something tangible to work with... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
windy Posted June 18, 2003 Author Share Posted June 18, 2003 Ah Blatters back from Le mans then? I saw your Westy in the car park at Indianapolis & Arnage & we were going to let your tyres down!!!! Are you chaps protesting as vehemently with the organisers of the other sprint championchips you're entered in, or is it just the SS organisers you're picking on? No, not protesting with anyone, but confused!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbo Tommo Posted June 18, 2003 Share Posted June 18, 2003 classes that diverge from the "national norm". Just competed at Dunkeswell in 2b (roadgoing over 2.0l). Class won by a Westfield with an aeroscreen and list 1B tyres. Beat us all by 2 secs. What's that all about? Certainly not only the WSCC SS that have their own peculiarities!!! JT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatman Posted June 18, 2003 Share Posted June 18, 2003 Ah Blatters back from Le mans then? I saw your Westy in the car park at Indianapolis & Arnage & we were going to let your tyres down!!!! Nice..... I take it neither me nor Blatbruv were anywhere to be seen? Unlike my finger, in this photo........ As for the confusion, can you answer the "national norm" question? Are there any two clubs that actually have identical regs for classifying us Westfield drivers? We're pretty much still a minority marque, so I can't see anyone bending over backwards to help us win trophies, rather than members of the other marques clubs who are organising the events.........As you know, I have a good deal less experience with these things, so I'm asking because I genuinely want to know, rather than just to p*** you and Guy off (again).....OK..... So a clear and concise explaination, and answers to the questions I have posed, would be greatly appreciated. Ta. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guy g Posted June 19, 2003 Share Posted June 19, 2003 "National Norm" for roadgoing Westfield (ie.2a and 2b) is List 1As, propoer screens, no seq boxes unless fitted as standard etc - well defined in regs for Midland Speed, NSCC, Leaders, Friarsgate etc. There are exceptions - ASWMC Championship is one example that you met at Dunkeswell, will meet at Wiscombe - List 1Bs and aeroscreens allowed in roadgoing classes. Westfield SS is now another. The arguement for conforming rather than doing something different is simple - it allows all to compete on a level playimng field wherever you go in UK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatman Posted June 19, 2003 Share Posted June 19, 2003 "National Norm" for roadgoing Westfield (ie.2a and 2b) is List 1As, propoer screens, no seq boxes unless fitted as standard etc - well defined in regs for Midland Speed, NSCC, Leaders, Friarsgate etc And *perfectly* in line with Classes B and D in the Speed series. So wheres the gripe? Last year, there was a sequential box in Class B, which caused some consternation, such that the rules were evolved. The road going B and D Speed Series classes now specifically ban sequential boxes, and have always excluded 1B tyres, and aeros. If you want to run 1B's/Aeros, and sequential 'boxes, the Speed Series now has classes that specifically cater for those people, so they can have a level playing field *as well*, as opposed to compromising. I understand that "on the day" there may be issues, but as we're (I'm assuming) mostly concerned with traditional 2A/2B classes, it's irrelevant for this discussion. I stand by what I said last year, that the addition of the "Road Modified" classes (E and F) *cannot* detract from the traditional 2A/2B sprint class, and I'm still confused as to why anyone thinks they do, as it seems, as I stated above, that the SS classes B and D are perfectly aligned with the "national norm", and the championchips listed above. Or am I missing something obvious? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatman Posted June 19, 2003 Share Posted June 19, 2003 Stanton slower than Blatchops. No change there then...... Evenin' Mr S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Stanton Posted June 19, 2003 Share Posted June 19, 2003 Hello Blats I shouldn't be here really - far tooooooooooooo much to laminate and pack for tomorrow morning departure to Curb C ya up there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatman Posted June 19, 2003 Share Posted June 19, 2003 Yep. I'll be arriving quite late though (like maybe 21.00......), and I'll be ready to nick several beers off people by then... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Stanton Posted June 19, 2003 Share Posted June 19, 2003 and I'll be ready to nick several beers off people by then... Some things never change Don't expect a cold one to be left by then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
windy Posted June 19, 2003 Author Share Posted June 19, 2003 The road going B and D Speed Series classes now specifically ban sequential boxes Whereas the MSA blue book doesn't. I've not got a problem with people using these in class 2b. We also have an extra reg for the "traditional 2A and 2B" Classes that the body tub must be of original body manufacture = Fibreglass for Se Sei etc and carbon for FW400 - which I think you will also find a mention of in the Blue Book Whereas the MSA blue book doesn't mention body construction relating to Category B Road kitcars & replica cars (I think you are referring to the Technical bit for Modified production cars which has nothing to do with category B kitcars?). Can't see the advantage of running lightweight bodywork, whether carbon or thin lay GRP? If you think the advantage is to do with weight, there is no minimum weight requirement defined by the MSA for any category B kit car. What about the turbo exclusion from roadgoing in the SS but inclusion in 2B defined by the MSA? I'm still confused SS, organising clubs supplementary regs and the MSA regs all seem to conflict, so I think this is what makes the venue organisers pick-n-mix the "on the day" event classes when everyone seems to be scattered across the paddock & running in different batches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
windy Posted June 19, 2003 Author Share Posted June 19, 2003 As for the confusion, can you answer the "national norm" question? Blatters, I interpret this as that defined by the MSA who deliberately do not define the technical regs very clearly to avoid excluding certain cars. Kitcars by their nature are self built so not one of them is the same anyway. They have chosen to call our cars "category B cars" 10.1.2 page 175 MSA blue book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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