steve wilson Posted March 20, 2003 Share Posted March 20, 2003 Sorry. 2002 sylva striker blackbird Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatman Posted March 21, 2003 Share Posted March 21, 2003 it goes to the chap with the lowest number on the clock after we've actually driven the cars, so you have to consider the whole equation. I'm not the one who narrowed it down to just grip........ "it's not about handling, it's about grip" was a bit of a revelation for me, 'cos I though it was about a combination of both, and what you do with them....... 1. Ask for advice 2. Immediately attempt to prove it's wrong 3. Do something different 4. Then go slower than the person you ask for the advice from 1+2. When I was asking advice on wheel and tyre sizes 3-4 years ago, the consensus I received was that 13's were the way to go. It may be that I took the wrong consensus. However, I changed the spec to 13's, and immediately went significantly faster, with NO other changes to the car. That is MY experience. Why is it less valid than yours? It isn't, it's just different, and you don't agree with it. Fine. It doesn't make it wrong though. I'm not trying to prove you wrong, either. I want someone/anyone to prove the conclusions one way or another, scientifically, if that's possible. Just 'cos you win on 15's ('cos you like the way they feel obviously) doesn't mean everybody else will. BUT, you are so convinced that you're right, I want to know what you are basing it on. If it's nothing more than throwing money at it, then I really ain't that interested. If there is a reason that will benefit newcomers/allcomers, or some sort of theory that we can all learn about (a free one, as opposed to a bought one. You know, something obvious that we've all missed) then I am interested. 3 As I said, I went faster...... 4. I doubt I'd beat you if I drove, and you reversed around the circuit. That's not the point...........I have an interest in gaining knowledge, and learning the speed event game. You obviously don't want to part with knowledge you've paid for, and I respect that (I nkow you don't think I do, but I do). It does make these discussions rather pointless though, which is a shame. IMO the worst teachers are the ones who say "do it my way, 'cos I say it's best", and then don't qualify why. Where would we be if the "elders" were never challenged by a new generation? Or perhaps you just don't know the answer to my question. Maybe the question doesn't have a right answer. Either way, I still don't know. I'll find out, though. Just not today, and not from you. I think that's a shame, 'cos you probably could teach us more about driving a sprint Westfield fast than anyone else I can think of. C'est la vie..... Steve Wilson, our newcomer friend who asked; assuming he has no experience, and a set of 13's already, has expressed a desire to use list 1B AO32's. He would surely be better sticking with the 13's, and gaining some knowledge, before deciding to start on the upgrade path? The Speed Series is supposed to be a cheap introducton for those who want to start in motorsport, and my initial advice was aimed at keeping his start up costs down. Of course, if he's loaded, all bets are off........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatman Posted March 21, 2003 Share Posted March 21, 2003 . And of course there is side-wall deflection on 13" with 70 section....... You'd run 185-60's on the 13's. You'll still get some side wall deflection, but in my worthless opinion/experience, it makes the car more predictable when it starts to slide........... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guy g Posted March 21, 2003 Share Posted March 21, 2003 I give up!! Final posting offering an opinion on anything. I want someone/anyone to prove the conclusions one way or another, scientifically, if that's possible. Just 'cos you win on 15's ('cos you like the way they feel obviously) doesn't mean everybody else will. BUT, you are so convinced that you're right, I want to know what you are basing it on. I'm basing it on results - mine, John Palmer, John Hoyle, Ashley, Tim Seipel, Graham Millar in fact anyone that's won in Class 2B over the last few years - the list is endless. Your arguement is wrong and it's bl**** minded. If it's nothing more than throwing money at it, then I really ain't that interested. If there is a reason that will benefit newcomers/allcomers, or some sort of theory that we can all learn about (a free one, as opposed to a bought one. You know, something obvious that we've all missed) then I am interested. Says he with 2 highly spec Westfields. There are many, many people in Westfields, you included, that have thrown more money at it than me. Your inferences are insulting and wrong (again). IMO the worst teachers are the ones who say "do it my way, 'cos I say it's best", and then don't qualify why. And the worst pupils those who don't listen!! Or perhaps you just don't know the answer to my question. I do and I've told you, but you don't listen. You're more interested in scoring points in the arguement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bananaman Posted March 21, 2003 Share Posted March 21, 2003 Chill out...................... Come on this is supposed to be fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve wilson Posted March 21, 2003 Share Posted March 21, 2003 Steve Wilson, our newcomer friend who asked; assuming he has no experience, and a set of 13's already, has expressed a desire to use list 1B AO32's. He would surely be better sticking with the 13's, and gaining some knowledge, before deciding to start on the upgrade path? The Speed Series is supposed to be a cheap introducton for those who want to start in motorsport, and my initial advice was aimed at keeping his start up costs down. Of course, if he's loaded, all bets are off........ No i dont have any experiance with these kind of cars at all and i havent bought any wheels/tyres yet apart from a set from the scrapers to move it about on. I would like to buy a set for the road and a set for track days ( maybe slicks ? ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Stanton Posted March 21, 2003 Share Posted March 21, 2003 If you've got a standard road-going car don't fit slicks for track days. Slicks have sooooooooooo much more grip than 1A or 1B tyres and as such can impart extra loading back to your standard road set-up - you'll be amazed how much added wear and tear can happen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveD Posted March 21, 2003 Share Posted March 21, 2003 it all boils down to money shame Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Algar - Competition Secretary Posted March 21, 2003 Share Posted March 21, 2003 Steve, There has been lots of discussion on choices and I wouldn't add to that, as people with far more experience have already commented, but some points to bear in mind. As a BEC (bike engined car) you compete in class E or F in the speed series so can use 1A or 1B tyres, generally 1B have better grip than 1A. If you are not sure which are on the list post and I or someone else can put the list up. Also you will want to be careful about weight as BEC's main advantage is low weight. Hope this helps and look forward to seeing you out there. Nick PS whilst I am sure Mark's comment is right, I tend to run slicks at track days as 13" ones are so cheap to pick up second hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatman Posted March 21, 2003 Share Posted March 21, 2003 I'll have my last say then........ Firstly, I apologise unreservedley if the wording of the "money" section insulted you. It was not my intention. My intention was to provoke further discussion (not just with you), and I have a habit of doing it, 'cos it generally works. Seems to have backfired big time......... Again, I apologise for any offence it may have caused. Says he with 2 highly spec Westfields. There are many, many people in Westfields, you included, that have thrown more money at it than me. Your inferences are insulting and wrong (again). Hmmmmmm, I doubt I have spent more on either of mine togehter than you have on yours. My sprint car is certainly standing me in at less than 12K, and probably less than 10K. I acept that I need to spend a LOT more money on it (and the driver), I'm just trying to be a more discernable punter, and trying to avoid wasting my money. I also seek to know the reasons behind any advice given, in the hope that my knowledge improves my understanding of a very esoteric subject. You're more interested in scoring points in the arguement. Actually, I'm more interested in scoring points in the Speed Series. Please don't think of these postings as an argument. I don't. I always assume that postings made here are a discussion. Passionate, exasperating (for us both), and polar, but please don't confuse my questions and opinions as a "scream and shout" argument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve wilson Posted March 21, 2003 Share Posted March 21, 2003 PS whilst I am sure Mark's comment is right, I tend to run slicks at track days as 13" ones are so cheap to pick up second hand. Thanks. where do you buy used slicks from and how much Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timd Posted March 21, 2003 Share Posted March 21, 2003 However, I changed the spec to 13's, and immediately went significantly faster, with NO other changes to the car. That is MY experience. I'm interested in this point.... You say you made NO other changes. Did you run the same make and model of tyre on the 13" rims, with a similar wear level, to what you ran on the previous (15" presumably) rims? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatman Posted March 21, 2003 Share Posted March 21, 2003 You say you made NO other changes. Did you run the same make and model of tyre on the 13" rims, with a similar wear level, to what you ran on the previous (15" presumably) rims? Good point. The answer is NO..... The 13" tyres I fitted were (in theory at least) a harder compound than what came off. I took off 205-50-15 Yoko A520's all round, with a wear index of 180. I put on Falken 502's 250-60-13 rears, and 185-60-13 fronts with a wear index of 280. A significant difference. In practice, there didn't seem to be much in it, grip wise, but as pointed out, my feeling for the car may not be up to a standard good enough to interpret what is actually going on. However, apart from wheels and tyres, there were no other mods to the car. At the events I base my findings on (the ones in the same year at tracks I re-visited, or the following season at familiar tracks), my times improved not just by fractions of a second, but by several whole seconds. Weather conditions and track conditions were comparable, although again, a track is NEVER the same twice, IMO. The improvements were also probably down to increased confidence, BUT that increased confidence came not just from experience, but also becaue I like the way the car felt on 13's compared to 15's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Algar - Competition Secretary Posted March 21, 2003 Share Posted March 21, 2003 Steve, I have picked up my slicks from BB site below and a few wheels, reasonably cheap. If you go 13" Revolution 4 spokes only weigh 4.5KG, where as I spent quite a bit of money on some 3 peice superlights which weigh the same. Mind the Superlights look nicer, and before any body mentions it, my'n didn't fall apart unlike someone elses. Racecar Parts Page Hope that helps. As to tyres I have used A32R with soft compound, which I find are good, but don't inspire confidence in the wet. Currently getting some ACB 10's , but as everyone says it's a very personal thing. Nick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve wilson Posted March 21, 2003 Share Posted March 21, 2003 thanks nick but i wont be useing it in the rain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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