adamnreeves Posted May 12, 2012 Share Posted May 12, 2012 Green Stuff sometimes get a bit of a hard time on here but when I used them, I liked them. These days on the road car I use Ferodo DS2500 up front and... er... something else in the rears That said, I'm "upgrading" the brakes on the road car right now and for the fronts I'm torn between Green Stuff, 1144's and the aforementioned DS2500's for shoving in the Westfield logo'd Bremsport/Outlaw M16 caliper... You tried Hawk HP+ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamnreeves Posted May 12, 2012 Share Posted May 12, 2012 May I jump in on this thread and ask a question...? i know this question's been asked before.... but is it really true that the 4 pot calipers (ohter than the ap ones) dont really give more braking performance than the standard m16 calipers? (but save weight I know). I fancy a brake upgrade, but dont want to fit brake bias etc etc... a simple disc/caliper swap would be the way for me... can I assume then that wilwood and hispec would be the only options??? what size discs would be recommended for 15" wheels? Grooved and drilled? and which make/model of caliper would you recommend? cheers lads... tim Here we go. I used grooved and cross drilled Cortina solid discs. I too have outlaw equivalent 4 pots. However I drove a friend's car using standard M16s and was left thinking the brake feel on his was better This might be down to the master cylinder I used. Westfield supplied AP one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CL290005 Posted May 12, 2012 Share Posted May 12, 2012 May I jump in on this thread and ask a question...? i know this question's been asked before.... but is it really true that the 4 pot calipers (ohter than the ap ones) dont really give more braking performance than the standard m16 calipers? (but save weight I know). I fancy a brake upgrade, but dont want to fit brake bias etc etc... a simple disc/caliper swap would be the way for me... can I assume then that wilwood and hispec would be the only options??? what size discs would be recommended for 15" wheels? Grooved and drilled? and which make/model of caliper would you recommend? cheers lads... tim If you want an alternative, google Caprisport they do various brake upgrades using mondeo calipers and cosworth discs they also do a 4 pot caliper using Brembo from Fiat Turbo but you have to keep 15 wheels Here I have googled for you http://www.zyworld.com/caprisport/1_brakes.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speed Freak Posted May 12, 2012 Share Posted May 12, 2012 cheers lads. gutting to hear tha the 4 pots dont really make much difference.... I personally didnt think the standard m16 setup is really good enough.... Ive upgraded from a 1800 zetec to an s2000 engine, and really wanted more brake performance... is ap the only way then (other than some mix and match jobbie from zyworld)?? what about either a bigger 4 pot caliper, or a 6 pot setup for the front? obviously brake bias will be a must, but what options are out there? can I assume to get the performance Im looking for, I'll need to spend over 1000 quid for all 4 corners? buggr just seen what the ap setup can cost... looking at about 700-800 quid just for the front.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterm135 Posted May 12, 2012 Share Posted May 12, 2012 buggr just seen what the ap setup can cost... looking at about 700-800 quid just for the front.... its worth it ! i changed from hispec to AP best move ever ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speed Freak Posted May 12, 2012 Share Posted May 12, 2012 ok sounds good.. Dont supppose u got a rough idea as to total costs? parts necessary- for fitting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterm135 Posted May 12, 2012 Share Posted May 12, 2012 the kit includes everything, inc new bolts. I think it was £ 700 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatman Posted May 12, 2012 Share Posted May 12, 2012 I personally didnt think the standard m16 setup is really good enough.... It's massively over braked! The M16's are from a car that weighs anywhere from two to three times what a Westfield weighs on average. If the brakes aren't good enough you have a problem, but it ain't the choice of disc and caliper... There are other alternatives to Hi-Spec and Wilwood. As mentioned by myself and Adam, the Outlaw/Brempsort M16's are pretty good but IIRC they are the heaviest of the lightweight offerings, but not by much. With an AP master cylinder that Adam has, I would expect these to be every bit as good as the cast iron M16's. And of course there's the AP's. I like them, but they're too rich for my blood. I just can't see what the "extra" 400 quid (or so) gets me over the alternatives... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamnreeves Posted May 12, 2012 Share Posted May 12, 2012 cheers lads. gutting to hear tha the 4 pots dont really make much difference.... That depends on the surface area of the pistons. Mine 4 pots have about the same area as standard 2 pots. At least they should give more even pressure. I really got mine at the time for looks and they are much lighter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatman Posted May 12, 2012 Share Posted May 12, 2012 But they don't *need* to be "better". We fit them 'cos they're lighter, not because they provide any improved stopping power... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamnreeves Posted May 12, 2012 Share Posted May 12, 2012 It's massively over braked! The M16's are from a car that weighs anywhere from two to three times what a Westfield weighs on average. If the brakes aren't good enough you have a problem, but it ain't the choice of disc and caliper... There are other alternatives to Hi-Spec and Wilwood. As mentioned by myself and Adam, the Outlaw/Brempsort M16's are pretty good but IIRC they are the heaviest of the lightweight offerings, but not by much. With an AP master cylinder that Adam has, I would expect these to be every bit as good as the cast iron M16's. And of course there's the AP's. I like them, but they're too rich for my blood. I just can't see what the "extra" 400 quid (or so) gets me over the alternatives... Yep totally agree. I am waiting for my new pads and discs to bed in. I found out that I had been supplied the wrong temperature range pads, i.e. Track use only. This is why my discs worn down by 2mm in less than 4000 miles, most road use! pads had worn around 2mm. Discs were the raceleda ones which start of around 9.8mm, i.e. 3mm ground off, so I was down to 7.8mm!! These pads are probably the real reason why I was disppointed. The HP+ pads that I have been supplied are road use + track day. Temperature window lower and a bid wider. Lots more dust though by the looks of my wheels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Eastwood (Gadgetman) - Club Chairman Posted May 12, 2012 Share Posted May 12, 2012 Yep pads is usually the first thing to address. After that, the only off the shelf properly matched set up OS the AP caliper kit with AP master cylinder. You can get close with the various 4 pot callipers from Willwood, Hi Spec etc, but the trouble is you either go for something that "works with" the standard MC, though I wouldn't really call them properly matched as such. Or you go for something with bigger piston area and start modifying the rest of the braking system to match. What do the TÜV regs let you do? Can you use adjustable bias valves etc to re balance the system, if you go down an "unusual" calliper route? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatman Posted May 12, 2012 Share Posted May 12, 2012 Yep, pad choice is critical, certainly needs a lot more thought than perhaps many people are used to. I'm pretty happy with the DS2500's I use in the M16's and 'cos I have black wheels, dust isn't an issue I've never tried the Hawks but IIRC dust was one of the things spoken about in discussions. But in the vein of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" I may well fit DS2500's to the 4 pots. I'll be able to get a bit of a comparison, although I'm altering master cylinder sizes too so it's not going to be like for like, just a seat of the pants judgement... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CL290005 Posted May 12, 2012 Share Posted May 12, 2012 Blatman intrested to know what you are thinking on sizes for master cylinders with M16 calipers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatman Posted May 12, 2012 Share Posted May 12, 2012 I'm not thinking, I'm calculating, based on piston sizes of the calipers, pedal ratio and what I want the actual f/r split to be when the balance bar is set to 50/50... I'll give you a starter for 10... http://outlawdiscbrakes.com/faq.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.