Counterfeit engine oil...

[Man On The Clapham Omnibus]

Hi M.O.T.C.O.

Any update on this?

I have a vested interest as a M3 owner.

Doug

Hi Doug, Well sort of...  The car was driven back gently and to hear it you'd think it was an old Vauxhall Cresta in dire need of tappet adjustment. There's 24 valves, of course, so if all the cam lobes were shot it would rattle at a high frequency, but it sounds just like two, three or four. Phil Crouch at CPC Performance in Amersham (BMW indy of good repute) has had a look and says that the cams are worn but so are the follower fingers. It is hard to tell which wore first. But if it were the oil you would expect all to go at more or less the same time. Also, as the car is not driven like a hearse (frequent rev-limiter excursions) surely the *real* load carrying bearings (mains, big-ends) would go first.

Since I first consulted CPC about the problem while the car was still in France, Phil has had another S54 engined car in with a similar problem. It transpires, he says, that S54 ///M engines of a particular age and >50k miles are suffering premature cam follower finger wear. As a result, and I haven't checked up on this, BMW have a backlog of orders for these of many thousands. We do not expect the car to be sorted until October!

[Doug Dastardly]

Thanks for the reply.

At least I should get 13k of happy motoring before needing to worry!

Would be good to know exactly what vintage of engines are affected if anyone out there knows?

[Man On The Clapham Omnibus]

This one is 56 plate with (after France) 51,000 miles on it and falls into the category. When I see Phil again I'll ask.

[stephenh]

To suggest that a 5W-30 oil is the same as a 10W-60 oil, and that the only change is a name change is taking the p**s out of their customers!! Seems to me BMW have shot themselves in the foot by that statement, and should be contributing to the cost of putting it right, if the engine was run on 5W-30 based on BMW's original recommendations.

[rocket_rabbit]

Castrol Edge has the most distinct smell going and I could easily identify it by my nose alone.

Castrol oil is fantastic stuff and it is my preferred choice.

Take what you hear from Opie oils with a rather LARGE grain of salt - of course there is counterfeit oil out there - you didn't buy it from them....

The tappy noise you are hearing - sounds like Vanos malfunction to me.

[jeff oakley]

I did as promised make contact with Castrol, unfortunatley the top technical guy I know is off until 31st of August.

I will follow this up once he is back.

[Man On The Clapham Omnibus]

I did as promised make contact with Castrol, unfortunatley the top technical guy I know is off until 31st of August.

I will follow this up once he is back.

Thanks Jeff, it'll be interesting to hear his view.

Rocket Rabbit, we thought that too - the bolts come loose apparently but there is visible wear on the cam lobes and followers, and the noise is definitely valve gear. A small bonus is that the Vanos bolts will be changed during the cam swap.

[Matt Seabrook]

To suggest that a 5W-30 oil is the same as a 10W-60 oil, and that the only change is a name change is taking the p**s out of their customers!! Seems to me BMW have shot themselves in the foot by that statement, and should be contributing to the cost of putting it right, if the engine was run on 5W-30 based on BMW's original recommendations.

I dont think anybody said that 5w30 was the same as 10w60

[jeff oakley]

I have now had some feed back which I have copied below.

"The M3 s54 has as far as I know, always required a 10W-60 ( we do the EDGE 10W-60 which is fully BMW approved ) most of the "normal" BMW will take the EDGE 5W-30 and this is correct - but sounds like the French garage has made a mistake with the oil in this one if they have used the 5W-30 ?

Regarding oil testing - we normally suggest Robertsons in Wales - 01492 574750 who should be able to confirm the servicability - but if it is an M3, and the engine has failed because the oil was too thin - then the responsibility is with the garage who fitted the oil I would suggest - the oil is normally the first thing to get blamed, but normally not the issue unless it's been allowed to get too low or not been changed timely.

Regarding the oil being "s**t" - I would suggest as it is developed in partnership with BMW - and is the only oil that is BMW approved ( 10W-60 ) - I would suggest that this is not the case  ... )"

Looking at the service bulletin if you read it carefully it says the "new Engine" which suggests that the bulletin was issued with the new engine code rather than afterwards. This is normal if all other BMW's took 5w 60 oil they would buy in bulk and would be wrong for the M3.

HTH Jeff

[Man On The Clapham Omnibus]

Jeff, thanks. The oil was installed in the UK and the garage is adamant that 10-60 Edge was used, but the car was taken to a garage in France because it started to develop valve train noise en route to Nice. The French garage did nothing apart from look in the cam chest and tut a lot. After drawing air in through his teeth, the French mechanic said it would take a long time and cost a lot of money. My son made his excuses and left. I shall try to draw some oil out through the dipstick aperture before it goes back to the workshop for the work and contact the firm you mention. The delivery of cam followers from BMW is scheduled for 23 September to the German factory so there's a wait yet. No BMW dealership has any in stock in UK. The camshafts will also need to be changed. The workshop who are doing the repairs will endeavour to find the cause of the problem, but there is some suggestion that these followers have a 50,000 mile life in S54 engines. The few dealerships I have spoken to say they "know nothing of any problem".  

[stephenh]

To suggest that a 5W-30 oil is the same as a 10W-60 oil, and that the only change is a name change is taking the p**s out of their customers!! Seems to me BMW have shot themselves in the foot by that statement, and should be contributing to the cost of putting it right, if the engine was run on 5W-30 based on BMW's original recommendations.

I dont think anybody said that 5w30 was the same as 10w60

I was looking at Peter's quote from the BMW service bulletin. Maybe misinterpreted it?  

[Man On The Clapham Omnibus]

Update on this matter. The car has been sitting awaiting a set of cam followers since the last posting because BMW have an enormous backlog on orders. It's in the workshop and the head is off to replace the camshafts and followers - there's no forward access to extract the shafts over the front so the head comes off. The workshop found that there was almost no water in the rad and that the oil really is 'oddly black' - this may be due to overheating with the lack of water. This car has no water temperature gauge, only oil temperature and this is a tiny dial deep in the instrument panel so it is credible that it was running damagingly hot un-noticed.

Now this is the thing: Just prior to the trip to France the car was in a BMW main dealer's bodyshop to have minor repairs done after a mini-cab jumped a red light and hit it. They removed the radiator in the process of the repair. There's no evidence of any water leaks anywhere so it must be that the bodyshop failed to replenish the coolant. The expansion tank was still full so the water level warning wasn't showing. How do we go about getting the dealership to stump up for the damage which, my workshop says, might even involve big-ends and mains. Bearing mind an S54 engine costs anything up to £20k to replace!

Answers on a postcard please...  

[Matt Seabrook]

You will need a full independent report before any more work commences at the very least I would think. To be honest I would not post any more on here until you have sought some proper legal advise. Posting on here could cause a problem if you are not careful. I would talk to CAB or a solicitor now as they will give you good advise and not internet hearsay. Good luck

[peterg]

QUOTE

They removed the radiator in the process of the repair.

and

QUOTE

The expansion tank was still full so the water level warning wasn't showing.

not sure how that could have happened as any car I've removed the radiator on has drained most if not all the expansion tank contents as soon as I pulled off the bottom hose...

[Bananaman]

Bearing mind an S54 engine costs anything up to £20k to replace!

Answers on a postcard please...  

Not sure how to go about claiming from the repair garage (I guess that's going to be a difficult one?) BUT if you have to pay up yourslef then surely it's not ecconomic to repair the engine as i'm guessing the car is only worth around £12-15K?