RobC Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 I've been watching your progress with some interest... looking really good..! it's my understanding of pre-preg that the curing temps and carbon alignment is where the majority if not all of the strength comes from... pre-preg material on its own is just at a state where the carbon and epoxy mix is at the correct ratio... I'm doing quite a bit of carbon stuff at the moment and post curing is where I am getting better results. That & vaccum bagging everything. And whilst wet layup is not the best that can be achieved it still gives good results. As you have already proved. My next steps on from where I am at the mo... will be infusion which again give better ratio mixes to wet layup but with that comes added costs... But like you said the learning is all good But the biggest thing I have learnt is that Micks stuff is very reasonably priced with all the time and effort he spends on them my stuff is only working out slightly cheaper...! Well done to you! :t-up: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatbaldbloke Posted May 28, 2012 Author Share Posted May 28, 2012 I'm using a mixture of home made, Mickmade, CarbonMods and Phil Cooper (F1 laminator) made parts. I don't have prejudices one way or the other, it's really more about pushing myself and learning new techniques. Mostly I'm making the flat and 2D panels. The carbon alignment isn't that critical on flat panels and it's quite easy (with a bit of practice) to get a nice finish. I think for the home enthusiast vacuum infusion looks quite promising as it doesn't have the cost and space constraints of prepreg (autoclave and all that stuff), but it does give good carbon consolidation. I think if I were looking to make much more I might pursue it, but this project is about building the entire car and the carbon bits are just one of the aspects, which are now nearly complete. I just have the tunnel top, bootlid and sump guard left to make. I find the biggest problem for the amateur isn't in laying up the carbon, but making a good enough pattern in a sensible timeframe, which is why I've bought things like the nose, wings, aeroscreen which have 3D curves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobC Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 I've bought things like the nose, wings, aeroscreen which have 3D curves. yup... far easier Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Eastwood (Gadgetman) - Club Chairman Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 Back in the days when time served engineers, machinists etc. were thought of more highly in this country, pattern makers were almost at the "Jedi Master" end of the scale! Good pattern making still takes a real good craftsmen at whatever level, something that's very obvious in Mick's work, and though it's hard to see just from photo's, looks to be there in FBB's work too. I must admit, I'd love to have a go again, now there's fun things like carbon to play with. But as a teenager, it was always having the patience and skill to make good moulds that let me down in the rush to see a finished project. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamR Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 I must admit, I'd love to have a go again, now there's fun things like carbon to play with. But as a teenager, it was always having the patience and skill to make good moulds that let me down in the rush to see a finished project. I'm still the same now - hence only ever doing flat stuff! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Eastwood (Gadgetman) - Club Chairman Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 I'm in the midst of making a pattern I can pull a splash mould off for a bell-housing closing cover. A slightly tricky shape, admittedly, it'll be underneath the car and plain old GRP but I still can't find a way of doing the "3 d" curved, back part of the cover I'm happy with! Thinking I might try and buy a block of foam I can carve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhc Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 100% agree with all of the above! It's aaalllllll about the attention to detail. I've seen a hugely expensive car (that's had a LOT of recent work - clutch, head gasket, chassis work, new ECU, pretty big bill) rendered useless this weekend because of poor attention to detail - stuff like a lack of threadlock on a nut meaning the throttle got stuck open, a belt rubbing through a sensor, etc. Massively frustrating for the owner The car I am currently enjoying is a testament to the fact that attention to detail pays off Thanks again Ian! PS: I know you said it's a keeper, but I'm first in line if you do ever sell the 'Busa Just like to reply to the above,and I must confess a vested interest. If you know so much about the problems that beset this particular car perhaps you would like to the inform every one just how much "this hugely expensive car " cost in relation to other Westfields. And also the reason regarding the poor preparation. Why have you only given half the story? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexander72 Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 in relation to making patterns for 3d shapes - I do it with blocks of green ash wood. Reducing the shape down with an angle grinder before sanding with paper/wet/dry.... bit old schhol but it works.. :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamR Posted May 29, 2012 Share Posted May 29, 2012 Just like to reply to the above,and I must confess a vested interest. If you know so much about the problems that beset this particular car perhaps you would like to the inform every one just how much "this hugely expensive car " cost in relation to other Westfields. And also the reason regarding the poor preparation. Why have you only given half the story? Mick - it wasn't my intention to change the tack of the thread with my post, only use a real-world example which I believe proves the point that attention to detail is paramount. Half the story is deliberate, I don't want to mention any specifics. I'll PM you now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatbaldbloke Posted June 13, 2012 Author Share Posted June 13, 2012 After a week's holiday I've now started on the bodywork. Remember that this is a restoration and development project and not a new build, so the problems and challenges are different. First off the body and scuttle are from the older mould with the lower, tapered location blocks for the bonnet. (Ig (Ignore the dirt and rubbish, that will all be tidied up later.) The bonnet however is a new V8 version with the steeper sided location blocks, and as I want to keep the lines tidy by using bonnet locks I need the positive location of the newer form. So, I've made a grp plug from the bonnet, done a bit of fettling to get a good fit, filled it with Devcon 5 minute epoxy and bonded it to the original location, et voila... I've then just tidied it up a bit and fettled to get the correct bonnet fit with relatively even gaps (sounds easy, I've actually been working on it for about 12 hours!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatbaldbloke Posted June 13, 2012 Author Share Posted June 13, 2012 Anyway, here are the first views with the old body, new bonnet and carbon nose all fitted. There were times when I thought they were not only from different moulds but for completely different cars, but a lot of measurement, fettling, trying and retrying, oh and the essential shouting later... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatbaldbloke Posted June 13, 2012 Author Share Posted June 13, 2012 Next, the rear end...hmm. A handful of challenges here... First off, the fuel filler pipe for the new injection tank isn't in the same place as the original... I have a cunning plan here, more photos to follow if it all works out ok. I don't like the idea of sandwiching grp in the roll hoop to chassis mounting region anyway, but this body has been a bit mutilated in the past and what's there now certainly isn't workable. So, I've trimmed away the grp and made a pair of aluminium brackets which will bolt under the roll hoop flange and then rivet back onto the grp return flange. Much neater, and to my mind technically sounder: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatbaldbloke Posted June 13, 2012 Author Share Posted June 13, 2012 And from the other side, maybe a clearer view of the stepped bracket to bring everything back into line. However, two steps forwards, and one step back...the rear lower edge of the body doesn't sit comfortably against the couple of mounting points under the rear crossmember (surprise, surprise). I can force it but I'm not happy with the induced strain, I know it's not right. So, tomorrow it's off with the body again and add a couple of additional spacers to the rear crossmember so the body can be mounted in the right place, with minimal stress, and with uniform clearance around the wheel. I'm also getting the tyres tomorrow (Yokohama A048's) and the new 3" Sabelt harnesses should turn up as well. I've a target in mind of getting this thing on the road by the end of the month, but there's a lot of detailing to get the bodywork looking just right from all angles and if it means further delays, so be it, I don't want to mess it up by rushing now. Nearly there.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatbaldbloke Posted June 21, 2012 Author Share Posted June 21, 2012 New brackets fitted to the back of the chassis to hold the body where it wants to be held... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XTR2Turbo Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 Next, the rear end...hmm. A handful of challenges here... First off, the fuel filler pipe for the new injection tank isn't in the same place as the original... I have a cunning plan here, more photos to follow if it all works out ok. When I swapped from a standard to longrange fuel tank the filler didn't quite line up. As the tank was new and never contained any fuel it was easy to cut the neck on one side, move over slightly and reweld. Perhaps this would work for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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