Yet another Caterham

[Richgm]

Factory-built, the Supersport will cost £22,995

[Matta]

Interesting topic this (I always like the Westy/Caterham debates).

I'm never going to have £20k+ to spend on a fun/trackday car, so am probably not best placed to comment - but I will anyway!

Personally, I can't see the point of spending a fortune on a a car that, for the majority of drivers, won't really give them much more pleasure than a well-sorted Westy.

Mine's a superbly built (by Windy, not by me), well set up 230bhp 1996 SEIW and I'd have paid at least half as much again for an equivalent Caterham. Frankly, in my situation, it's name over substance and I wouldn't do anything different if I were in the same situation again.

I also think the Westy is the better looking of the two but again, just my opinion.

However, I couldn't agree more that Caterham have got it right when it comes to marketing their product more appropriately. Westfield are certainly lagging in providing the no frills fun/track day offering that appeals to the masses.

Just my ten-pence worth.

Matt

[Blatman]

Factory-built, the Supersport will cost £22,995

But for 20K the Caterham will come to you as CKD. That's Complete Knock Down. IE, *everything* you'll need to complete the car, and quickly. Many of the jobs we hate like cutting a hole for the zorts, fitting the loom, lights, dash etc ect, are already done. There's kit cars and there's kit cars.

Of course if you want the fun of a more labour intensive build then a Westfield will give you that, but I'll bet it costs nearly as much when you use, as Caterham will, all new parts...

[Matt Seabrook]

Does it come self coloured or do you have to factor in a coat of paint?

[Blatman]

Oohh good question. Don't know, but IIRC paint used to be extra so another grand on top. It's still not bad value...

[Cleggy the Spyder Man]

for me personally for 20k I would want a bit more grunt (i.e a very high spec seconhand westy or similar)  - however as others have said I bet as a "handling fun factor" track day car there is not much to match it

again I agree with the above - the caterham is no looker compared to the westy

however nobody has mentioned that the caterham will actually be worth something when time comes to sell unlike our beloved westies

[Blatman]

for me personally for 20k I would want a bit more grunt (i.e a very high spec seconhand westy or similar)

But comparing a new Caterham to a second hand Westfield is not comparing apples with apples. We're on about a new Caterham compared to a new, equivalent spec, factory built Westfield, not what you can get for the money.

however nobody has mentioned that the caterham will actually be worth something when time comes to sell unlike our beloved westies

Depends how you look at it. As a percentage of initial outlay, Caterhams devalue as much as, and at the same rate as a decently screwed together Westfield. The issue is, because Caterhams are less prone to individualisation, they can be, on balance, more consistent quality wise. This is not so for Westfields where the quality of second hand examples can vary far more IME...

[Cleggy the Spyder Man]

however nobody has mentioned that the caterham will actually be worth something when time comes to sell unlike our beloved westies

Depends how you look at it. As a percentage of initial outlay, Caterhams devalue as much as, and at the same rate as a decently screwed together Westfield. The issue is, because Caterhams are less prone to individualisation, they can be, on balance, more consistent quality wise. This is not so for Westfields where the quality of second hand examples can vary far more IME...

well if we are talking buying new - I can see no logic buying a new westfield as they seem to lose 10k as you wave goodbye to Julian at the factory gate - how often do virtually brand new high spec factory built westfields sell for any more than 15k? not very often!

From the research I have done in the past caterhams hold their value much better than westfields - very surprised to hear you saying otherwise - I assume we are talking factory built to avoid difference in build quality

[nikpro]

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder but personally I think the caterham is far better looking and less 'kit-car' ish - its aluminium skin and bonnet look far superior to a ripply fiberglass offering from Westfield.

I also prefer the rear arch profile and the shorter stance.

It's performance in a straight line will be within a cigarette papers width to a standard Duratec Westfield (caterham is Lighter and only 30 bhp down). the Caterham gearbox is far better suited than the boggo MCT75 supplied by Westfield Making the Caterham the more fun vehicle to drive with the better Chassis.

The steering on a Caterham is absolutely sublime in comparison to a Westfield and the engine choice is significantly lighter than the Duratec Or Sport turbo; neither of which are particularly feather weight.

Compare the Cost of a modular Duratec Westy Build or Sport Turbo to the caterham and see which is cheaper!!!

It is a real shame that the westfield factory don't speak with the people in the Speed Series and use their feedback to improve the product IMO

The way I see it: if you want a good hobby and love messing with cars then buy a westfied, if you want the best Seven but are not so bothered about the 'naily' aspect of Kit Cars buy a Caterham.

The cost of each new is very comparable and the Caterham is normally better quality than the average Westfield. (There are some absolutely stunning members vehicles amongst us though   )

[jim_l]

I'm surprised by, but not arguing with, the assertion that this would be quicker on track than a duratec Westy. If that is the case then this car certainly gives Westfield something to think about.   I'm staying brand loyal,

a) because I genuinely think the Westy is a better looker,

b) I own one and am attached to it,

c} Accessabliity, for those of us that have to or choose to do it on a budget you get more car for your money, you only have to look at what comes up on here for 12K ish.

d) This a is a great club, magnanimous to, here we are expounding the virtues or our biggiest rival.

Not a bad thing for any of us if Caterham come up with something that challenges Westfield to do better, perhaps the factory needs to get back to basics and get focussed.  

            Jim.

[Blatman]

QUOTE

well if we are talking buying new - I can see no logic buying a new westfield as they seem to lose 10k as you wave goodbye to Julian at the factory gate - how often do virtually brand new high spec factory built westfields sell for any more than 15k? not very often!

From the research I have done in the past caterhams hold their value much better than westfields - very surprised to hear you saying otherwise - I assume we are talking factory built to avoid difference in build quality

Caterhams don't suffer the immediate depreciation hit like a Westfield, no question there. But after a few years, and as a percentage of the new price there is often little to choose between the two marques. It has been discussed many times in the past. It always gets bogged down in the arguments about exceptional Westfieds which do make good money, being compared with average Caterhams. But as always, if the time is taken to compare like for like, depreciation of the two is always pretty comparable.

Looks wise, Westfields, Caterhams etc are all ugly. I didn't buy my green one for it's looks or the colour!

[Mark Stanton]

QUOTE

d) This a is a great club, magnanimous to, here we are expounding the virtues or our biggiest rival.

Why is it a rival of the WSCC the WSCC aren't manufacturers simply a club of petrol heads and enthusiasts, most driving Westfields, but certainly not all  

QUOTE

It is a real shame that the westfield factory don't speak with the people in the Speed Series and use their feedback to improve the product IMO

WSC Ltd management have spoken to many SS drivers and club members over a few years       its their decision to choose what to incorporate or ignore  

[Norman Verona]

One thing so far not mentioned is the owners have a shared interest whether they own a Westie or a Caterham.

I suppose both clubs have their rogues it's just that it seems that the L7C has far more.

However, the most important part, The WSCC is run for its members and is well managed. I'll stop there.

[hoobahole]

Nikpro,

You raise something that I've seen before, but can't understand why.

The steering is sublime.

What makes it so different from a Westfield? I guess the caterham doesn't use an escort rack? or is it the geo... They are both pretty back to basics, so would love to know why the Caterham is so much better. Have never driven one.

Have never understood.

[nikpro]

Nikpro,

You raise something that I've seen before, but can't understand why.

The steering is sublime.

What makes it so different from a Westfield? I guess the caterham doesn't use an escort rack? or is it the geo... They are both pretty back to basics, so would love to know why the Caterham is so much better. Have never driven one.

Have never understood.

The geometry and the chassis of a Caterham is significantly different and everything adds it's own 'little piece'.

A westfield feels slightly 'dead' around the centre position which a Caterham doesn't - it's very hard to put into words the difference I suppose it's best described as:

With a Caterham you think about where you want to point it and it goes, with a Westfield you have to think about where yo want to point it then point it there.

hope that makes sense.  

Don't get me wrong, a very,very well set -up Westfield gets pretty damn close!

I made my decision to Buy Westfield for 2 Reasons:

(1) My fat A*** wouldn't fit in a Caterham (No fat Cat available then)

(2) Caterham used K series Engines back then.

There really should be no Disliking the 'Other Brand' it's very petty with nothing to back it up and Vice Versa from Caterham owners.

Trouble is from a Caterham point of view the 'Other Brand' no longeris just Westfield; the other LSIS replicas have caught westfield up and I'd go as far as saying even the new Robin Hood looks as good dynamically from a brief scan of it.