sempers Posted April 28, 2003 Share Posted April 28, 2003 Been hankering after one of these since I ditched my scoob, and got a sensible everyday car; went up to kingswinford sat, and drove the demo (1800 zetec). Oh. Not at all what I was expecting, rather too civilised: Drives like it's on rails, fantastic noise, undobtedly fast, but didn't feel it (quick estimate about same leage as scoob), mega cornering ability, but very neutral, no more involving than the scoob really. Not wishing to take too many chances with it, but a quick lap of a roundabout left the inside rear spinning rather than any tail action. Swear my friend's mx-5 had more direct, and more communicative steering (probably subjective) - Oh, and possibly the most appalling turning circle of anything I've driven (not that that matters! Not wishing to diss the marque, appreciate the demo is very vanilla spec, and probably set up to be as forgiving as possible, but.. I'm somewhat less inclined to purchase than I before! Was looking for something that would track well, yet also be entertaining to drive on the road without travelling like a missile / at twice the speed of everything else - that was the nail in the coffin of the scoob in many ways; it just wasn't enjoyable in everyday driving, to get a smile usually involved driving more suited to the track, and less suited to the public highway! Bit of a ramble, but I'm very interested in peoples responses - I would imagine there's quite a variation between individual cars. Already been advised to try: Cateringvan, sylva stryker (smaller), and bike power. Don't feel I can afford bike power in a westie however. Many thanks, Mark. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gregh Posted April 28, 2003 Share Posted April 28, 2003 Was looking for something that would track well, yet also be entertaining to drive on the road without travelling like a missile / at twice the speed of everything else - that'll be the westfield then! I would hazard a guess that the factory make their car as safe and as neutral as possible. I'm also an ex Scooby owner, I'd suggest you 1) Join the WSCC 2) Get along to some local meets 3) Get down to a track day where Westies are present 4) blag as many rides as possible during 2) and 3) I'm in Leeds and your welcome for a ride if you are in the area, otherwise should be at Cadwell on the 12th May. regards, greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bananaman Posted April 28, 2003 Share Posted April 28, 2003 Not at all what I was expecting, rather too civilised: Well I never. Was looking for something that would track well, yet also be entertaining to drive on the road without travelling like a missile / at twice the speed of everything else Mini 1275GT. Drives like it's on rails, fantastic noise, undobtedly fast, but didn't feel it (quick estimate about same leage as scoob), 1800zetec you prob. about right, however it didn't feel quick, i would have thought beeing a couple of inch's off the ground & open to the elements would have made it feel pretty quick. I would imagine there's quite a variation between individual cars. Oh YES. Don't feel I can afford bike power in a westie however. How much you got, I belive you can get a Megablade for £10,000ish??? As Greg say's try a couple more B4 you give up. Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazza Posted April 28, 2003 Share Posted April 28, 2003 You should be congratulated on getting to the crux of the problem of a basic model. Most people take a few weeks/months to get the up-grade-itis stage that you so well defined: 1) Quick rack (to remove the std 'deadness' 2) stiffer front end (see above) 3) LSD (essential gear to achieve decent traction & cornering) next you'll have spotted the hopeless first gear etc etc.. So, don't be pu off. Just look out for one with a more hard-core spec. They are out there. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buzz Billsberry Posted April 28, 2003 Share Posted April 28, 2003 Was looking for something that would track well, yet also be entertaining to drive on the road without travelling like a missile / at twice the speed of everything else - that'll be the westfield then! I would hazard a guess that the factory make their car as safe and as neutral as possible. I'm also an ex Scooby owner, I'd suggest you 1) Join the WSCC 2) Get along to some local meets 3) Get down to a track day where Westies are present 4) blag as many rides as possible during 2) and 3) I'm in Leeds and your welcome for a ride if you are in the area, otherwise should be at Cadwell on the 12th May. regards, greg Hi Greg Didn't realise u lived in 'string o' beads' R U travelling down to Cadwell on sunday or on monday morning? trailer or driving down? Think I'm going down monday morning and trailering C U then Buzz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gregh Posted April 28, 2003 Share Posted April 28, 2003 Hi Buzz, probably driving down/back on the day, no southern softie trailering for me! regards, greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sempers Posted April 28, 2003 Author Share Posted April 28, 2003 Bannanaman: Well I never. / 1800zetec you prob. about right, however it didn't feel quick, i would have thought beeing a couple of inch's off the ground & open to the elements would have made it feel pretty quick. Not sure I like the , however; I'm quite psychotic! I'm also not a total stranger to performance cars. The impression of speed is less than the scoob, you don't get the shove in the back, just a more linear effect, it's also a lot less 'jiggly' over the bumps. Overall the gearing seems very long which makes it a lot less frenetic than expected. Wind in the hair etc., is just that, i was judging the performance from how it hauls up the next corner... Oh, and my last 'performance' outing was on the back of a 900cc bike. That didn't seem so fast either until I felt like I was going to get sucked off the back by the breeze Gazza: 2) stiffer front end (see above) 3) LSD (essential gear to achieve decent traction & cornering) Ok, that makes a lot of sense.. you generally 'feel' the stiffer end of the car. Interested about the LSD tho - I notice a lot of racing formulae prohibit the LSD option, presumably they manage to achieve half decent traction at the same time as some lateral acceleration somehow!? next you'll have spotted the hopeless first gear etc etc.. Maybe I'm not as sharp on these car reviews 1st seems a little long to really launch off the line, but otoh, it's over and snatch 2nd pretty quick, so is it too long, or too short? Budget wise, I was thinking of around the 6k mark, hopefully a little less. Probably X-flow. However, maybe I need to revise things a little.. Not sure I want to spend that money on something that's not going to put a grin on my face. Again I emphasize I'm looking for the involvement, and smile factor. A car that does an unbelievably fast laptime round your favourite circuit, but drives itself ain't what I'm interested in - or I might still have an impreza. Thanks for the comments so far... Mark. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonnyBoy Posted April 28, 2003 Share Posted April 28, 2003 Was looking for something that would track well, yet also be entertaining to drive on the road without travelling like a missile / at twice the speed of everything else mg midget/ AH Sprite with a modded 1380 a-series. an absolute blast to drive even in std form, so with the extra power you probably wouldnt get more smiles per pound. If you are a back end action boy (not referring to your sexuality here btw! then i would say ideal! great on the track too apparently, my dads mate races them, and stories i've heard about undertaking supercars round bends makes me wish we hadnt just sold ours! i'm looking at doing an rx7 rotary engined midget when i go out to canada for a year.....mmm If you look at other sevens, then they might need more work to drive, but that is mainly cos their chassis are a bit ****e! I Westfield have the best chassis (according to Procomp) and the others are left wanting! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toby Mack Posted April 28, 2003 Share Posted April 28, 2003 I'm no expert but have just "upgraded" from a lotus Excel to a westfield (live axle, 1700 xflow). My impressions in the week or so I have had it compared to the Excel. BTW. Excel is 0-60: 7 sec, 135 mph top speed and handling that has embarrassed Scooby's on the track a few times in the wet Westfield. Don't feel the accleration like the Excel. At first I was pretty disappointed but then realised that in fact it gets to the same speed in the same distance and overtakes just as well so I think this is perception rather than reality. It just doesn't give that same shove in the back feel. Btw. I have also driven a 4AGE powered striker which also didn't feel that fast until the owner told me I was doing over 100mph in a very short distance Personally I don't find that being close to the floor makes things appear faster. Doing 100 in the striker felt more like 80 to me but maybe I am strange! Much worse acceleration at 70mph+ but then with a CD of 0.5+ vs about 0.34 for the Excel that is not a surprise! Much more feedback through the steering. Not obvious when driving sedately (where it doesn't have quite the same directional stability) but instant feedback when the tyres are on (or past! ) the limit. Not as easy to hold a slide as the Excel but much easier to tell one is about to start Corners faster than the Excel on slower corners at least and stops a LOT quicker especially now I have fixed the brakes. Powerslides: Oh yes, they are quite easy, even with the limited power of the xflow. With the original tyres it was verging on the dangerous- they were very old and hard- but even with A038Rs (borrowed from a friend) it was still fairly easy. Some slight sign of the inside wheel spinning up first but not enough to stop both wheels going if provoked. Big problems trying to hold a slide as it comes back very quickly if you correct. I think an LSD would help but perhaps cause understeer on slower corners? I should say that I haven't got a clue how my car is set up or even what power it has. I will not be playing with that until after my first trackday (this friday). What I do know is that it is set about as low as it will go. From my brief experience I would say that a 7 is not "better" than a scooby (or excel or whatever) just very different. I guess it really depends what you want to get out of it. Personally I don't regret the change for one moment although I will not be too sad if I cannot find a buyer for my Excel, it still makes me grin from ear to ear every time I drive it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick M Posted April 28, 2003 Share Posted April 28, 2003 Interested about the LSD tho - I notice a lot of racing formulae prohibit the LSD option, presumably they manage to achieve half decent traction at the same time as some lateral acceleration somehow!? Such as ?? Curious as much as anything. And maybe they can achiece half decent traction, but if they can't, they'll all be as bad as each other... I'd imagine it's a cost issue rather than a performance one in the series your thinking of. Besides, if you have the option to fit an LSD because you're not limited by regulations then it would, IMO, be a good thing to do. Transformed my car. Powerslides: Oh yes, they are quite easy, even with the limited power of the xflow. With the original tyres it was verging on the dangerous- they were very old and hard- but even with A038Rs (borrowed from a friend) it was still fairly easy. Some slight sign of the inside wheel spinning up first but not enough to stop both wheels going if provoked. Big problems trying to hold a slide as it comes back very quickly if you correct. I think an LSD would help but perhaps cause understeer on slower corners? That's what I found - yes, you could get the back end out but it wouldn't stay there. It didn't feel that nice. But fitting a LSD made the world of difference The car is just so much more fun on the limit. And there's no appreciable understeer apart from in very, very wet conditions with very little grip. Then it's not so much fun, but a little prod of the right pedal soon sorts that out !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonR Posted April 28, 2003 Share Posted April 28, 2003 I drove was the current maroon demo car at the factory about a month ago. It was the first Westfield I had driven, although I have driven c******ms a few times on the track. I used to have a MR2 Turbo and basically was looking for something that was quicker and a bit more cost effective for trackdays. Like you I found the demo a bit slow although its power delivery was very different to that of the MR2. Plus the whole driving experience was very new. In the end I bought a 4A-GE powered Westfield, which is a fair bit quicker than my MR2 and the handling is a lot sharper, although to be fair I haven't had chance to drive it any where its limit yet on the road. See if you can get yourself a drive of a quicker/different setup Westfield, you will probably find it a very different experience. Toby Which trackday are you doing on Friday? If it is Hullavington I will see you there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bananaman Posted April 28, 2003 Share Posted April 28, 2003 Not sure I like the , however; I'm quite psychotic! Is this a medical diagnosis? Should i be worried No offence intended. Do you live anywhere near Harewood, if so get yourself along to the Hillclimb course on the 25th May & you'll see loads of Westfields of every possible denomination, bring a helmet & blag a ride? Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeff oakley Posted April 28, 2003 Share Posted April 28, 2003 Sempers, the feeling you had when testing the demo car was the same as I had. I already had a pinto engined car and with the demo there was just none of the rawness i had with my own. They explained that lots of potential customers turn up in mercs etc with the wife who then goes out in a car they expect to be like a convertible merc in stead of a race track refugee. They were losing sales due to this so all demos are made soft to accomadate the more genteel customers. The demo was fast and did go sideways( checks for wirring of helicopters) but did not feel fast, and yes the lock is appaling but apparantly wide track suspension of swept wings help considerably here. As others have said get along to a club meet and blag rides and feel the differance some will be smooth others will feel like there is no suspension how you would like yours will be up to you and fully acheivable. jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S8ight Posted April 28, 2003 Share Posted April 28, 2003 do they still give you the sheet of things not to do when you take the car out for a test drive ? i missheard the wife when she was reading it to me and thought she said "do" instead of "do not" no wonder she ended up hiding in the passenger footwell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juansolo Posted April 28, 2003 Share Posted April 28, 2003 Was looking for something that would track well Yep they do that very nicely and can be set up to be really quick. yet also be entertaining to drive on the road without travelling like a missile / at twice the speed of everything else ...and therein lies the problem. Set it up to be a track missile and inevitably it's on road manners will suffer. Mine on sticky rubber is a crap road car. You're sat so low so you can't see around corners, over hedges, over slight rises in the road. This means you are always well within it's limits of cornering, it just goes round anything you point it at. To get to it's limits would be wreckless and dangerous. Also inevitably when you do pass the car that's holding you up you blat for a minute or so and you're once again caught up behind something waiting for a safe overtaking opportunity. I find it all very frustrating. There are two options really. Option one is to have two cars. An out and out track car like the Westie and a fun/practical road car. This is exactly what I have just done by buying a MR2 for the road. Not particulaly fast but it is massive fun without doing the silly speeds that the Westie can. In our current 'speed kills' climbate of rapidly multiplying 'saftey' cameras there is no longer many places that you can open up a true performance car. Option two is to buy an Elise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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