The Westie Election

[Mike H]

Mike, not sure what part of Derbyshire you're in but when I was running projects in NE Derbyshire the money came from Europe. Didn't stop the MPs claiming the credit though.

I think we all need to understand one thing. we have a huge dept to repay. Whoever wins will have to increase tax and cut spending. The only difference is will be in who can run the goverment efficiently and maximise the income and tax to repay the debt.

Ed to ad that I think I'm going mad. I read a post by Mike H about Derbyshire but I must have imagined it. I'm working too hard (digging out the barn floor with a huge concrete breaker - photo's on the web site in "Life at La Foie)

You're not going mad Norm, I did post but thought better of it.  Don't want too many personal opinions littered around t'internet.

But I did say - it's ok for you to say you'd vote LibDem - you wouldn't be the ones paying their local income tax !!

There has been so much money spent in NE Derbyshire and I'm sure you're right a lot of money has come from the EU but the county council has spent so much time (and therefore money) on it too that the rest of the county is crumbling.  The perception is that the council members and the leader have concentrated on the areas where they get most votes from.  Unluckily for them it backfired in the last local elections and Derbyshire is now Con - so that's all spending stopped  

Mike  

[Blatman]

QUOTE

Far from being communist, I see New Labour as old Conservative. They certainly haven't redistributed the wealth.

Name one communist country that has kept to the ideals of distributing the wealth?

Russia? No

China? No

Cuba? No

North Korea? No

Vietnam? No

And my point wasn't about the economics of the situation, moreover the modus opperandi of the left of centre parties.

If you want to talk economics, check your history. The UK's recent political history (last 50-60 years) has Labour being voted in, wrecking the economy with it's quasi communist policies and ideals, but without the wit to carry them through. The Tories get voted in, clear the mess up and whilst it hurts, we generally end up better for it. It's just that no-one seems to remember the good stuff, only the pain. If we hadn't had the Thatcher government, how many of us would be homeowners with expensive toys to play with?

Take political partisanship and personality out of the equation and look at any neutral academic study of politics and you'll see that we have far more to thank Thatcher for than many realise.

[Lurksalot]

My own industry is typical of the interference that Blatters describes. It may seem petty in the overall scheme of things but back in 2001 the government made replacing windows notifiable to the Building control depts. Every window that is changed is supposed to be inspected and approved by the council!!!. The bureaucracy  that this has created is ridiculous , resulting in self certification schemes ie fensa , cropping up . the councils did not have the resources to police the regs so now the installers absorb the costs of the scheme .

We also cannot offer 10 Insurance backed warranties because to sell a 10 year warranty for £25.00 we would have to be approved by the FSA , but we are allowed to give them away for free!!

It is very poorly thought out and does nothing but complicate issues and subliminally tax the customer and the business.

[Captain Colonial]

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zxcvbnm,./

Oh. I'm sorry. This thread is so dull I just fell asleep face first on the keyboard.

[Norman Verona]

Blatman, call it what you want but it isn't communism.

I agree with Lurks, the current Tory party has introduced more laws than any other Govermemt in history.

I have my own theory. they earn so much money (for who they are/ability) that they feel they must do something to show us they are earning the money. Or stealing it!

My problem is I have a feeling that if the blue Tories get in nothing will change.

I want a party to stand up and say "we're not interested in party politics, we're only interested in looking after the British people."

[Man On The Clapham Omnibus]

The present lot, thanks to Blair, are supermarket politicians.

"Tell us what you want us to say we believe to make you vote for us, and we'll say that"

"Whether we actually DO it, is another matter..."

Where are the politicians with integrity, who had values (like them or not) and stuck to them? They were, in the main, Old Labour; Benn (?), Heffer, et al, but there were some Tories - Maggie being the most memorable.

[BobS]

Name me one thing that the labour administration have doe that's 'communist style'.

Totalitarian might be a better term. Try the forcible removal/arrest of an elderly protestor from your own party at a conference for voicing his disagreement for a start, then arresting another for reading out a list of names in a public street. There will be loudspeakers on lamposts spouting the wisdom of chairman Gordon and massive portraits of him on billboards of they get back in. It's the overwhelming feeling that HMG wants to know everything about everybody typical of repressive regimes that I find a worry. In case I seem like a little Tory, I tried the political profiler Political Compass the other day, endeavoured to be honest, and came out just below the liberal line and slightly to the left of centre.

I found that site quite interesting.

I came out roughly the same as you, diagonally opposite to Gordon Brown (& Hitler )

[Lurksalot]

Name me one thing that the labour administration have doe that's 'communist style'.

Totalitarian might be a better term. Try the forcible removal/arrest of an elderly protestor from your own party at a conference for voicing his disagreement for a start, then arresting another for reading out a list of names in a public street. There will be loudspeakers on lamposts spouting the wisdom of chairman Gordon and massive portraits of him on billboards of they get back in. It's the overwhelming feeling that HMG wants to know everything about everybody typical of repressive regimes that I find a worry. In case I seem like a little Tory, I tried the political profiler Political Compass the other day, endeavoured to be honest, and came out just below the liberal line and slightly to the left of centre.

I found that site quite interesting.

I came out roughly the same as you, diagonally opposite to Gordon Brown (& Hitler )

we  are all Ghandi  

[Blatman]

I also find it interesting that many of the "older generation", and I include my own parents in that, think themselves to be labour / working class, as apparently some commentators here do too. Now, whilst it is clear that we all work for a living, the values held seem to be more white collar than blue, despite ideals and behavior that claim to be different. I suspect one of the biggest issues with the current generation of "older" voters is that they vote based on dogma and habit, rather than by actually examining the choices made and behaviour exhibited to arrive at a voting choice.

[windy]

Blatman, call it what you want but it isn't communism.

I agree with Lurks, the current Tory party has introduced more laws than any other Govermemt in history.

I have my own theory. they earn so much money (for who they are/ability) that they feel they must do something to show us they are earning the money. Or stealing it!

My problem is I have a feeling that if the blue Tories get in nothing will change.

I want a party to stand up and say "we're not interested in party politics, we're only interested in looking after the British people."

UKIP?

I like the idea that we stop putting £45 million per day into europe.

[lippydave]

I also find it interesting that many of the "older generation", and I include my own parents in that, think themselves to be labour / working class, as apparently some commentators here do too.

I'm working class.....

Based on the simple fact that if I don't work the mortgage company will reposses my house and the bank will forclose on any debt I may have......

No work equals no rewards. I have to work to live, surely that makes me working class?  

[Blatman]

That's my point though. "Working class" has a different meaning these days than it had a few years ago. Everyone is working class, from the office junior to the MD. You could argue that Jenson Button or Wayne Rooney are working class if the distinction for working class is the ability to pay for things you want, like a house / rent, clothes, food and a car. So why do we have to differentiate the parties based on a redundant perception of class? It makes no sense.

The left of centre parties clearly have failed to redistribute the wealth in accordance with their sensibilities. But the so called party of the privileged has successfully redistributed more wealth by allowing greater autonomy to make choices about how we run our lives and our businesses. The better my company does, the better I do. Sure, you can argue that it starts with "I'm all right Jack" but the end result is that if we all try and do better for ourselves, we end up mostly doing better for our companies and our families, so we all as a society generally do better. The problem is that "old labour voters" don't have the capacity to admit to themselves that they are in fact as capitalist as almost everyone else, and that for the most part, it actually serves us pretty well.

[Norman Verona]

If only it was that easy.  All parties, on the face of it, have something good about them. I'd happily vote Tory if they would show some compassion for those in society who can't do as well as others. I don't mean those who want to live off benefits but the disabled in our society. Now, maybe they do help those less well of than the rest of us but their image doesn't reflect this.

To be even handed New Labour haven't done very well on this score either.

As far as pulling out of Europe is concerned how long would our economy last if we were on our own. Windy, have you deducted from the money we pay in, the money we draw out?

[tabs23]

Name me one thing that the labour administration have doe that's 'communist style'.

Totalitarian might be a better term. Try the forcible removal/arrest of an elderly protestor from your own party at a conference for voicing his disagreement for a start, then arresting another for reading out a list of names in a public street. There will be loudspeakers on lamposts spouting the wisdom of chairman Gordon and massive portraits of him on billboards of they get back in. It's the overwhelming feeling that HMG wants to know everything about everybody typical of repressive regimes that I find a worry. In case I seem like a little Tory, I tried the political profiler Political Compass the other day, endeavoured to be honest, and came out just below the liberal line and slightly to the left of centre.

I found that site quite interesting.

I came out roughly the same as you, diagonally opposite to Gordon Brown (& Hitler )

And so did I.

Maybe everyone does... Who knows if their surveying system works or not? Would you believe any old web site? Even this one?

[Blatman]

QUOTE

As far as pulling out of Europe is concerned how long would our economy last if we were on our own.

We did all right for abut 1500 years before Europe was invented. Pulling out would free us to trade with anyone we wanted without having to ask a Brussels committee for permission...