Kit Vs Manual

[peterrosey]

I rivetted all the ally panels on to my Westie... and I wish I'd paid the factory to do it (£200? Bargain!. It took me two days and that was with a compressor and an air-powered rivet gun.

If you've only got a manual rivet gun, you'll look like Popeye on one side!

If you do plan to do it yourself, get loads of 3 and 4mm drill bits in stock...

[steppenwolf]

£200 seems like a bargain to me! This is an arduous job that MUST be done properly as much strength is added to the car when it is completed. I'd get the factory to do it as they will have all the right equipment for the job ensuring that the chassis is unflexed before the work commences.

I did not fit the panels myself but I used a Halfords hand riveter for the rest of the build. This did a good job but it sure was hard work, I wish I had had access to an air driven one!

The comment about the extra drills is more than true, I wore out three and that was just fitting the glass fibre body tub to the chassis. Now, where's that spinach?

[Mike H]

Be careful. Rivetting the chassis panels onto the car which is not supported on a VERY straight surface that is VERY stable will have the thing twisted.

Me, I'd get the chassis back to the factory and have them put it in a jig whilst attaching the panels.......

Is a non panelled chassis really that flexible?

Do you think they rivet them in a jig? That would seem a bit ott.

I'm picking up my SEiGHT starter kit this Sat so I'll buy an extra long spirit level from B&G on the way home  

Mike

[Blatman]

As Steppenwolff said, much of the torsional rigidity comes from the addition of the ally panels.

Yes the chassis is stiff, but getting it right is VERY important, IMO. A small deflection at one end while you lean in to get someting rivetted could be magnified at the other end.........I dread to think how many folk have done this at home, got to the end of a long panel to find that it "doesn't fit properly/needs trimming/holes don't line up". Are you SURE it's the panel that's wrong?

I don't know for sure that the factory use a jig, that's why I said  

.......have them put it in a jig..........

.

I can't believe there is any other way to do it properly though, and they have the jigs there ready. Ask 'em..................

A jig may seem a little OTT, but it's only a tool to be used, remember.

[Mike H]

I don't think any of the panels are that long tho'. Esp when you consider the exterior side panel (I think that's the longest) is an 'optional' extra!!

However, due care and attention will be taken - I'll have no choice, the father in law is up this weekend he used to build/design fuel rod mechanisms for nuclear reactors!

Do the rivets have to be within .001mm tolerance?

I'll just ring Mrs H to get some extra spinnach.

thanks

Mike

[Blatman]

It's the exterior panels I was thinking of...........Get them fitted by the factory. It will be well worth it IMO.....

[Richard M Green]

Have only just come back to this thread:

Blatman I think all your comments are valid though I'm sure the factory don't hold the chassis in a jig whilst rivetting.

The reason that I recommended the use of skin-pegs is to prevent the type of mis-alignment and consequent stressing to which you refer. After all we don't take aircraft wings off and hold them in a jig whilst we re-panel them!.....

Regards all

Richard

[Blatman]

I wasn't approaching it from an aerospace perspective, but from the advice received from a well qualified racing car engineer. He was advising me on re-panelling my sprint car, which I was discussing with him at some length on Wednesday. He told me in no uncertain terms that to attempt this, without taking proper care to ensure that he chassis is appropriately supported, would be utter folly...........

[Talking b*****k* mode]

Aircraft wings are supposed to flex aren't they? Westfield chassis should be a *lot* stiffer, I'd have thought.......

[/Talking b*****k* mode]

I'll be in trouble now. Flame suit on...............

[Guest]

Almost wish I'd never asked coz I thought it was just gonna be an easy (though boring) job. Ignorance is bliss and all that!  

[Al Yupright]

Cant imagine they're in the jigs for the panel fitting at the factory.

After all, the chassis has to come out of the jig for powder coating. Cant imagine it gets put back in.

Given the amount of silicon between the panels and the chassis I think its a wack the panel on the side, hold it with clamps, then run along drilling right through the ali and the chassis, then blow rivets in. Job done.

I got my panels fitted, cos I'm lazy and wanted to get stuck into the builds, but I know a lot of people who havent because they wanted to get the panels powder coated/anodised.

If the factory fitted them in the jig, then your points are probably valid, but cant imagine they do. They churn out chassie at a fair rate I think.

On a similar topic, can you believe that the side external ali panels are OPTIONAL!?

When I ordered my new car, I phoned Chris Masters and said "you cannot be serious!?" but he was insistent that loads of people have built westfields with no ali side panels (ie rear wheel exposed by your shoulders...)

Mad...

Cheers,

Al

[steppenwolf]

I too am surprised that the external side panel is a 'option' as I would have thought that it's contribution to chassis stiffness would have made it mandatory. As for the gunge and road debris that would accumulate without it being installed the whole concept of not having one is bizarre. That the internal panels are optional makes sense as they are really just a 'comfort/appearance' item especially as they are only lightly rivetted to the inside of the car.

I wonder how much rigidity is lost in the chassis rails by drilling holes every 2" ?

On the subject of panels, I haven't got ali panels on the underneath of my transmission tunnel, only on the top. I have seen a car that is fully panelled, however, and i wondered if I had missed something during the build?

[Blatman]

My narrow chassis car only has internal panels.....The factory used to supply "filler panels" that fit at the ends of the footwell, and are curved to meet the body. A bit of fibreglass matting, and hey presto, a fairly well protected body/chassis cavity. The rears also have a similar panel, again, glassed in between a chassis rail and the body work. They seem to work OK too, 'cos there was no crap in there last time I looked.

I have a fully enclosed transmission tunnel on the green car    I don't think the factory supply a panel, but it's just an oblong bit of ally, rivetted on. My tunnel top is easily removable though, so any work in the tunnel can be done from above. With that and the rear diffuser, my car looks like new underneath.......

[Matt Seabrook]

Shouldn't those tyres have gone for "Environmental disposal"? Thats what the charge on my bill said, anyway

Cheeky sod I never bill you for disposal.

The factory did not have any cars in jigs when I went to pick my car up. They had cars they had been fitting panels to some being fitted when I was there. If it was that important to have the chassis that square when fitting panels then they would supply exterior panels as standard as these with make a big difference.

Haxsaw if you want an easy answer then wait till Blatman goes on holiday next time before you ask something.

   

[Blatman]

Please read what I post fellas.

On 02/08/02, at 09.02, I said;

I don't know for sure that the factory use a jig, that's why I said

Quote

.......have them put it in a jig.............

 

OK...............

I'm making the (apparently incorrect) assumption that any interested parties can pick up the 'phone, talk to the factory, and get the correct advice from them.

The advice I received, only this week, from (and I'm repeating myself again) a well qualified racing car engineer, was that panelling the chassis in a jig would be highly desirable. Buying panels and doing it in the garage was pointless, to the point of foolishness............

[Westfieldman]

Westfields are not race cars[that rely on the extra strength gained from the panaling] they are well over engineered so they can be safely used on the road as has been said already the long side panels that could help with strength are optional and except the rear bulk head and floor whith is in four peices anyway are all small bits of alloy. There are lots of thing that could be done in the perfect world to make the job just that little bit better but its down to time/profit for the factory and ability/facility's [workshop/garage] for the rest of us as long as you are not sat on one side leaning over with all your weight on the chassie and putting one rivet in after the other in a line, I would sugest on a square/rectangle start in the midle of the longest edge and work towards the edges evenly along each opersite side together, you can use the rivets to hold the alloy sheet in place just pushed into the hole to help keep the sheet in position.

Hope this makes some sence time to got to bed.[good old nights tomorrow]

Paul.