Discount on hold for club members

[markcoopers]

Well that took me all of an hour to read.

The certification idea, and Julian correct me if i'm wrong here, was probably started by suggestions from this club, and how we could help newbies with choosing cars. Personally I take extra timeout to help newbies with "choosing the right car" questions, and what is it worth. I've written 2 article for WW on the subject, and suggested this or a similar idea to Julian some months ago.

The idea was simple, and would apear to be accepted. A simple acceditation for quality, ie assurance for a newbie that the car they were looking at was at least once built to a standard. Nothing to do with the parts used or the cost thrown at the car, or the horse power under the bonnet, purely and simply quality of build. Indeed no mention of value or price anyware.....

I've purchased 6 westfields todate, all private builds, but the quality between them huge, and if only i knew then what I knew now.

[nlash]

Phew, some thread...

Ok, while I applaud the forward thinking of 'New Westfield", it does worry me that insurance companies may take the view in the future that, 'if the car hasn't been factory certified', then the car has no appreciable value, and/or a claim would be dismissed.

Personally, I think only factory built cars should carry this certification. It removes any doubt or specualtion that would occur with certifying home built cars and would identify true factory built cars only.

If the process of certification is made available to 'all' cars, there will no doubt be an indemnity to be signed to say that 'Westfield Certification is by no means an indication of gauranteed safety or mechanical integrity'. I do think it will only be a matter of time, despite any indemnity by the factory, that someone somewhere will have an accident and a mechanical fault with a certified car will be indentified as the cause. Then a whole new can of worms will be opened with massive legal implications.

By certifying cars not built by the factory, is the factory almost taking responsibility for the build quality of this vehicle?

Of course, if it is just the factories intention to certify cars by logging the builders name, chassis number, SVA and registration details etc, then what is the point of this? How can such information be deemed correct on a car that has had various numbers of previous owners for example?

Certification of new factory built cars supplied is a good thing, maybe even new kits supplied after the process comes into force. Certification of exisiting cars built and/or supplied already registered and on the road, isn't so good IMO

[juansolo]

Please can i repeat what i said earlier.  You CAN have your car certified by the factory whether it is a kit or not AND it does not matter whether you have used Westfield parts or not.

It sounds like they will be inspecting and rating the assembly quality and not the source of the parts. They won't care if a particular brake caliper is the "best", but only that it is fully functional and safely installed. This should allay some concerns.......

Which is exactly what SVA does and the MOT inspects annually.

[CarlR]

QUOTE

Which is exactly what SVA does and the MOT inspects annually.

Absolutely, come a month, 6 months, year or two down the line what's the certification worth. If you don't feel comfortable purchasing a westy on your own go to the AA, RAC, Factory or someone you trust to help you ensure the car is in good working order and built/rebuilt/upgraded safely.

[DMMS]

QUOTE

Absolutely but it should also be painfully clear from recent issues on another similar forum that these sorts of heavyhanded responses can spiral oput of control to nobodies benefit and a more level headed approach will extract a far better result for all involved.

[wig on]

Sadly, the operation of website chat rooms is not as simple as trusting users to bide their tongues.  Mostly due to developments amongst our litigious American cousins (this should not be implied as a dig at rgs-laverda in any way or form!), administrators of chatrooms MUST take a robust approach to anything that is potentially defamatory or libellous.  I have recently been asked to advise a major corporation on this issue due to a potential liability - if THEY are concerned, an organisation such as the WSCC, who simply would not have the resources to defend an action as complicated as this type of issue, MUST also ensure that their position is secure.

In essence, the difficulty the WSCC committee faces is that they are responsible for the operation of a site that publishes material in the public domain.  In law, this could be classified in the same grouping as newspapers and other physical publications.  Taking this in mind, if a newspaper prints a defamatory article, who gets sued?  Both the author AND the newspaper.  If a book is libellous, the author AND the publisher AND the distributor can be culpable.  Whilst one person is responsible for the remarks, the others are responsible for their publishing in the public domain and cannot restrict their liability.  Therefore, if defamatory remarks are made on the WSCC website, the committee COULD be liable to action being brought against them.  Their main defence will be the ability to show that they react in a robust fashion against users who feel it appropriate to use their "free speech" to make defamatory remarks.

So, whilst this may be seen as sad and infringing rights to free speech, in the absence of users acting in a responsible fashion, the WSCC must take action.

Sorry to be a bore, but a little bit of thought engaged prior to opening one's mouth can make a huge difference.

[wig off]

[neilwillis]

Defamatory stuff will not be left displayed for long, you can rest assured.

What i can't work out is why you all assume the insurance companies would get involved at all in the Westfield certification scheme.    Surely that could only apply if the information was released to them, and in who's interest would it be to make that service available to them?

It is aimed at potential buyers, for their peace of mind, and would make not a jot of difference to any insurance company.   Do you really thing WSC would put obstacles in the way of potential buyers here?

It seems to me once someone loses their head, and starts bleating, everyone seems to go into mass panic mode.   It's designed to ASSIST, not obstruct.   Why oh why would WSC want to make life difficult for their customer base?

Strange, but true.   The them and us era has come to and end, get used to it guys!

[Muttleys V8]

bl**** HELL, what a thread.

With regards to WSCC members getting a discount, if you have spent alot of money via Westfield, either buying a kit minus engine & gearbox (like me) or even buying a brand new car, its up to the person to try and get a discount, are you really going to get a discount if you only spend £100 a year with the factory, but if your spending £11k on a kit, i'm sure a discount of some kind could be agreed.

With regards to a Westfield Certification, if you want to do it, take it to the factory, if it means your going to get more for your money when you sell the car, whats wrong with that? I'm sure my car thats being built by Mr Ashcroft is as good a standard to a factory built car.

Steve

[S13RUM]

Talking about this last night at Holmfirth meet.

Still makes me cringe.

· Posted on Apr. 24 2007,222

(stu999 @ Apr. 24 2007,21:49)

QUOTE

I think we would have to restrict your throughput - for fear of you getting 'Repetitive Falling Over Injury'

   

http://i114.photobucket.com/albums....199.jpg

                   

Dentist changed His Merc after the last episode

Mate

[perksy]

 

That brings back memories Mate      

I asked the plastic surgeon to take a few Wrinkles out when He was Stitching me up

But He Wasn't having any of it    

There's still some Gravel in me face, but they seem happy to leave it where it is        

[mb893]

QUOTE

Why oh why would WSC want to make life difficult for their customer base?

I can't see why they would... but as Bazzer says (sort of   ) this kind of thing needs to be well thought through and explained in a manner that allays the concerns the "Customer base" may have.

Seemingly not so in this case...

QUOTE

and starts bleating

No bleating from me or anyone else as far as I can see... just natural concern about a scheme that could impact on the value of our cars.

QUOTE

The them and us era has come to and end, get used to it guys!

Again, this seems to be the case, however this does not mean that anything and everything the Factory do should not be discussed by the members of the car club (or owners of said cars) or blindly assumed to be 'good' - does it?

[lukeyboy]

I think it would be rather handy if the club could put together a spreadsheet of OEM parts that can be used on various models of the Westfield range. I for one know there are load of parts out there but am not always 100% sure on the exact part numbers for things such as steering racks, ball joints, track rod ends, brake pads, disc, clutches etc. etc.

After all this is one of the reasons why I joined a car club, to help me modify my vehicle, maintain it, meet new people, save money, enjoy it etc.

I am not going to get into Westfield discount arrangements, that is up to them, I personally believe that I should have the right to shop around for the best price on parts. If Westfield manufactured "all" their own parts then they would have the job sewn up, but they don't, they also buy in other manufacturers equipment which opens the market up to competition. I don't mind spending a few quid over the odds to save hassle but I'm not going to drop my trousers and touch my toes.

As for car registration scheme - great for the factory stopping people taking the pee when trying to pass it off their shed as a factory build, but personally I don't give a toss. I built my car to a high spec and don't need a little badge to tell someone else. If your buying a second hand kit car you would be mad to turn up and buy one without taking someone with some experience. It's highly unlikely I'm going to travel hundreds of mile to get my car inspected anyway.

Let the factory iron out all the niggles with the scheme proposals and let's all stop jumping to conclusions.... after all if we're not happy when it comes out in the wash let your wallets do the talking and don't spend your cash there.

And remeber if this thread goes on much longer we might end up like that other 7 web site and start falling out and trying to sue each other. Everybody have a group hug, take a big breath and wait for Westfield to train up a trident lad to do the inspections.

     

[stu999]

QUOTE

I think it would be rather handy if the club could put together a spreadsheet of OEM parts that can be used on various models of the Westfield range. I for one know there are load of parts out there but am not always 100% sure on the exact part numbers for things such as steering racks, ball joints, track rod ends, brake pads, disc, clutches etc. etc.

After all this is one of the reasons why I joined a car club, to help me modify my vehicle, maintain it, meet new people, save money, enjoy it etc.

I am not going to get into Westfield discount arrangements, that is up to them, I personally believe that I should have the right to shop around for the best price on parts. If Westfield manufactured "all" their own parts then they would have the job sewn up, but they don't, they also buy in other manufacturers equipment which opens the market up to competition. I don't mind spending a few quid over the odds to save hassle but I'm not going to drop my trousers and touch my toes.

     Sorry - but asking the manufacturer of any vehicle (or indeed any other product) to divulge where all of the component bits are sourced is being a tad unrealistic... If you cant find where or what a particular part is from, then you will be touching your toes. Thats life!

QUOTE

As for car registration scheme - great for the factory stopping people taking the pee when trying to pass it off their shed as a factory build, but personally I don't give a toss. I built my car to a high spec and don't need a little badge to tell someone else. If your buying a second hand kit car you would be mad to turn up and buy one without taking someone with some experience. It's highly unlikely I'm going to travel hundreds of mile to get my car inspected anyway.

Let the factory iron out all the niggles with the scheme proposals and let's all stop jumping to conclusions.... after all if we're not happy when it comes out in the wash let your wallets do the talking and don't spend your cash there.

[Mark Stanton]

Stu

QUOTE

I think it would be rather handy if the club could put together a spreadsheet of OEM parts

I think Lukeyboy is asking for the club to do it - not the factory            

Well - I can tell you now, I sure ain't gonna do it       volunteers take one pace forward      

[lukeyboy]

I think Lukeyboy is asking for the club to do it - not the factory            

Well - I can tell you now, I sure ain't gonna do it       volunteers take one pace forward      

Yep! Just thought that individual members could contribute the odd part info forward when they come across it, for different models (maybe warn about failure rate).

Possibly one member could look after / update the sheet for each vehicle?

I never thought for a million years that Westfield would supply the info    

[Paul Hurdsfield - Joint Manchester AO]

w w w..bleatchat.com.............

Oooopps am I having a senior moment  

Have I stumbled onto the 'wrong' website  

or the right one