Blatman Posted August 13, 2006 Share Posted August 13, 2006 Does a late model Sierra crank pulley (I assume from a 2.0l injected Pinto) fit the nose of the Cosworth crank? If so, I need to get to the breakers yard, and then return the trigger wheel I bought On a Cosworth in a narrow chassis, the standard VR mount fouls a chassis rail. I can show you pictures... You may have more room in a wide of course, but I maintain that fitting a Lumenition is *much* easier than fitting a MJ, especially for a novice. Like I said, saying "just fit a MJ" takes *no* account of the skills the questioner may or may not posses, so it may not be a case of "just fit a MJ", especially for the uninitiated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scruffythefirst Posted August 13, 2006 Share Posted August 13, 2006 I'm with blatters on this one I've got mappable on mine and its great, but it wasn't simply a bolt on job. Not a problem for me, but fiddly. For someone without an electrical clue making a loom is a sod and to do it neatly takes a lot of time. Mounting the crank pulley on a cossie isn't as simple as chris and bill make it sound sometimes, but its not difficult with the right equipment. QUOTE Of course I still think people who can't solder shouldn't be allowed westfields :-) Strongly disagree with that. I can't solder for toffee, but I can build kit cars no problems, having just finished one from nearly scratch in just under 4 weeks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill shurvinton Posted August 13, 2006 Share Posted August 13, 2006 None of us are arguing that lumenition isn't easier, its just an awful lot less functional as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatman Posted August 13, 2006 Share Posted August 13, 2006 It's a question of degree though. You and Chris are appropriately experienced and knowledgable. Simply saying the answer to ignition and fuelling issues is to "just fit a MJ/MS", whilst being technically correct, takes *no* account of the skill level of the persons asking the question. No-one is saying that MJ or MS don't work, but not everyone has access to the necessary equipment or skills to make it easy for everyone with a problem, every time, and I think that you all too often overlook this because you have the necessary skills and take it for granted that everyone else has them too. Put it this way. I have a skill for riding motorcycles. I can get from Heathrow to the City Airport in about 60 minutes in the rush hour. Can you? No? Why not? You have a driving licence and the roads have signs for directions. What more do you need? What's the matter with you? Anyone who can drive should be able to do this... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scruffythefirst Posted August 13, 2006 Share Posted August 13, 2006 TBH, as a solution to the original problem, the guy could just change the points and condenser for new ones. Fitting a lumetion kit requires more skill than taking it to a garage and telling them to change the points. /devils advocate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatman Posted August 13, 2006 Share Posted August 13, 2006 The Magnetronic is as easy as changing the rotor arm and points to fit. If the coil is close enough and you don't need to extend the Magnetronics cables to reach, then it's really very easy to fit indeed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cng1 Posted August 13, 2006 Share Posted August 13, 2006 Blatman, the simple answer to the crank pulley question is "it depends". It all depends on 2wd/4wd, poly-vee or standard belts. I needed poly-vee 4wd pulley and wasn't prepared to pay for the late escort cossie pulley so used one of my trigger wheels (this is where my trigger-wheel business started out). Originally I had my trigger wheel fastened to the front of the pulley with the three "tripod" bolts, using a home-made sensor bracket, now I have it welded to the back of the pulley and am using the original sensor bracket and location. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill shurvinton Posted August 13, 2006 Share Posted August 13, 2006 Of course I still think people who can't solder shouldn't be allowed westfields :-) Strongly disagree with that. I can't solder for toffee, but I can build kit cars no problems, having just finished one from nearly scratch in just under 4 weeks. Nah, that just means you don't have kids :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatman Posted August 13, 2006 Share Posted August 13, 2006 Blatman, the simple answer to the crank pulley question is "it depends". It all depends on 2wd/4wd, poly-vee or standard belts. I needed poly-vee 4wd pulley and wasn't prepared to pay for the late escort cossie pulley so used one of my trigger wheels (this is where my trigger-wheel business started out). Originally I had my trigger wheel fastened to the front of the pulley with the three "tripod" bolts, using a home-made sensor bracket, now I have it welded to the back of the pulley and am using the original sensor bracket and location. 2WD pulley, "normal" fan belts. I have the standard triple belt 2WD pulley. Any idea if the injection Pinto pulley will fit? As I say, in a narrow chassis, the standard VR bracket fouls on the chassis rail, which is a real shame... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill shurvinton Posted August 13, 2006 Share Posted August 13, 2006 Put it this way. I have a skill for riding motorcycles. I can get from Heathrow to the City Airport in about 60 minutes in the rush hour. Can you? No? Why not? You have a driving licence and the roads have signs for directions. What more do you need? What's the matter with you? Anyone who can drive should be able to do this... That's actually 3 seperate issues: 1. You ride like a courier ( or is a bike better than a car) 2. You know the way. (I don't and don't particularly want to either) 3. Is satnav a good idea. Ignoring 1 &3 for now we are left with 2. You know the way and could explain it to me such that I could also find the way. It's the same with an ignition upgrade on a YB. Collectively there are people on this forum who could - Source/Mod the pulley for the trigger wheel - Build the MJ -Help loom it up - Supply a far superior map to that which the lumenition will give - Turn up and drink all the beer whilst saying 'I wouldn't have done it that way' - etc Collectively hard problems become easy. Isn't that the point of joining the club in the first place? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatman Posted August 13, 2006 Share Posted August 13, 2006 Fitting a MJ/MS is *lots* of separate issues. Can you solder? Can you wire? Can you weld? Can you map? The point is the skill set. You have those skills that make the MJ/MS issues insignificant. Step outside of your core skill set and in to mine, and you try to obfuscate the issue by breaking it down so that the argument seems unreasonable. You often contend that if you can build a kit car, you can build and fit a MJ/MS reasonably easily. I contend that if you can drive, you should be able to get from London Heathrow to London City Airport reasonably easily. Yes you can ask me directions on the forum as often as you want, and as detailed as you want, but at some point you have to get out there on your own and do it. I'm not expecting you to try it, but that hasn't stopped you making excuses as to why you're going to fail by suggesting that I ride differently to you and I know the way... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cng1 Posted August 13, 2006 Share Posted August 13, 2006 Ok, so some fabrication is required. I'm sure that there are some more bolt-holes to use as potential mounting points on the ali front housing but even if not a piece of angle iron from the existing bolt holes to give you a mounting position level with crank center-line would work just fine. If fabricating something like that really is beyond you then I may be able to knock something up to suit using my spare engine as a prototype. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cng1 Posted August 13, 2006 Share Posted August 13, 2006 Fitting a MJ/MS is *lots* of separate issues. Can you solder? Can you wire? Can you weld? Can you map? I can do all those things to a greater or lesser extent, I'm sure that most club members can do at least a subset of those things and even if they can't they know someone who can. You can't solder: Either you find a mate who can or you buy a built system from Bill or one of the other people who sell them as ready built boxes. You can't wire: You find someone in your local group who can, invite them over for some beer and they help you do it. By the end of the afternoon/evening you're both pished, you have a wired car and a bit more knowledge about how to do it, possibly to the point that you'll be able to help someone else do it next time. You can't weld: Learn (it's fun), find someone who can, take the parts you want welding to your local garage/machine shop/fabricators/metalworkers and exchange beer/notes for services rendered. You can't map: Either download a map from someone with a similar engine (even a poorly suited 3d map is better than any dizzy can deliver, take it to a rolling road and let them to do it, or read the existing settings off the dizzy using a timing light. C'mon find us a problem that we can't collectively solve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oioi Posted August 13, 2006 Share Posted August 13, 2006 Fitting a MJ/MS is *lots* of separate issues. Can you solder? Can you wire? Can you weld? Can you map? I can do all those things to a greater or lesser extent, I'm sure that most club members can do at least a subset of those things and even if they can't they know someone who can. You can't solder: Either you find a mate who can or you buy a built system from Bill or one of the other people who sell them as ready built boxes. You can't wire: You find someone in your local group who can, invite them over for some beer and they help you do it. By the end of the afternoon/evening you're both pished, you have a wired car and a bit more knowledge about how to do it, possibly to the point that you'll be able to help someone else do it next time. You can't weld: Learn (it's fun), find someone who can, take the parts you want welding to your local garage/machine shop/fabricators/metalworkers and exchange beer/notes for services rendered. You can't map: Either download a map from someone with a similar engine (even a poorly suited 3d map is better than any dizzy can deliver, take it to a rolling road and let them to do it, or read the existing settings off the dizzy using a timing light. C'mon find us a problem that we can't collectively solve i couldnt do any of the above when i started an MS conversion. im still not happy soldering a circuit board and have never tried welding (tho i do own a welder!) but im here and up and running. i do see blatmans point very well. MS (and to a lesser extent) MJ is not straightfoward. you do not not buy a bag of bits from a supplier with an instruction manual that says connect x to y, bolt A to B, press start. this has to be understood before embarking on the work Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill shurvinton Posted August 13, 2006 Share Posted August 13, 2006 I'm not expecting you to try it, but that hasn't stopped you making excuses as to why you're going to fail by suggesting that I ride differently to you and I know the way... Missing the point. You are taking the case of me doing it on my own. I am taking the stand of those who have already done this helping those who have not. If you were to ride with me and give me directions I would get there more easily and faster. Example: NICKBS. Just did his first event having fitted a 3D ignition system. With help from Kevin Wood, Oioi and Howard plus others he got his Vx up and running and in the PM he sent me reckons he has gained half a second. Left on his own he 'may' have struggled to get running and may even have given up. But with the help available from the members (and the odd non-member ) he succeded and is ecstatic with the improvements. Surely that is what we are all here for? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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