felters Posted January 4, 2006 Posted January 4, 2006 I think it also depends a lot on spec... if you've thrown a ton of money at the options list then the depreciation on any car will be even more punitive. Admittedly it's an extreme example but Tim Duncan/Janets twin engine car probably sold for a fraction of it's cost... on the other hand buy a nice clean secondhand Zetec SEIW and you'll see a good amount of your money back. Quote
adamnreeves Posted January 4, 2006 Posted January 4, 2006 Caterham Classic is a live axled 1.4 K series, IIRC. Hardly comparing eggs with eggs. The 2.0l Westfield is the R300/R400 equivalent. Do the maths on those... The classic I saw advertised was a 1.6 but I do take the point, I did point out the I was not comparing exactly like with like. I do know that much about caterham but they would have you believe that their 1.6 is not to dissimiliar from the westfield 2.0, at least 0-60 anyway. Quote
Blatman Posted January 4, 2006 Posted January 4, 2006 They might want you to believe it, but that doesn't make it true And you're right, the current classic is a 1.6 K series, with 105bhp so one assumes it's not on TB's but on boggo Rover plenum injection. Wow... Plus if you look, things like paint, a spare wheel and a windscreen are cost options on the Caterham... You just *cannot* compare a base model Caterham with a 2.0l Duratec Westfield. It's like comparing a base model 2.0l Mondeo with a Lexus IS200. Yeah they're both 2.0L 4 door cars, but that hardly makes them comparable. If you're not going to compare like for like, then your initial example that got me started on this is totally irrelevant... Quote
Toby Mack Posted January 4, 2006 Posted January 4, 2006 I agree that the classic depreciates less, but then so would a similarly specced Westfield. Trust me... I agree about apples with apples but is this really true? My impression was that the lower spec westfields are not as desirable or sellable as the better ones so the depreciation is in fact higher. Which contrasts with caterham where there appears to be a reasonable market for low spec models- even crossflows! Don't think this changes the main thrust of your aguement though! Quote
Blatman Posted January 4, 2006 Posted January 4, 2006 I'd have to do some more research 'cos that particular observation is based entirely on my (usually reliable) gut reaction. HOWEVER, I think there is a definite issue with people selling x-flows or other preceived "low end" models (actually, it extends to plenty of Westfields, not just "low end" models) who would probably do better if it wasn't for this myth (that Westfield owners seem to be happy to perpetuate. I don't get it...) that Westfields don't hold their value, added to a bit of impatience on the part of the sellers. There is nothing inherently wrong with Westfield residuals, and they hold their own when *properly* compared with Caterhams, Porsches, Ferraris, Lambo's and any other "niche market" car you'd care to name. Residuals/depreciation runs at about 30% in the first year or so, and tails off once the initial hit has been taken, just like every other car there. Westfield and Caterham sellers suffer becuase buyer are comparatively few and far between, so impatience, a nagging wife or whatever gets the better of them and the price comes tumbling down, not becuase they are bad cars, but becuase the owners are bad sellers. I have given some thought to what may happen if I ever sell my cars, and I fully expect to not make a sale for 6 months from first advertising. That doesn't make them bad cars, just that the right buyer hasn't seen the car. Quote
Blatman Posted January 4, 2006 Posted January 4, 2006 Some more depreciation wibbling from page 10 onwards here... Quote
chrisbin Posted January 4, 2006 Posted January 4, 2006 And just to add one more little fly in the ointment.....how much did/will the cars actually sell for......?? Its all very well comparing advertised prices, but those aren't necessarily fact either...... Basic fact is that depreciation as a percentage of the car's initial cost is pretty much the same for both...... so Quote
Chasmon Posted January 4, 2006 Posted January 4, 2006 OK to settle this find two 8 year old cars of similar initial cost from Westfield and Caterhams stable and show me the depreciation is similar over those 8 years. Unless the Westfield has had ££££ thrown at it which obviously b*******s up the calculations. So two 8 year old similar new price cars still on initial spec. Go Blatters you're good at searches.... Quote
Blatman Posted January 4, 2006 Posted January 4, 2006 Can't be bothered. If you think I'm wrong, fair enough. I know better... Quote
Chasmon Posted January 5, 2006 Posted January 5, 2006 How long did you spend before you gave up? Quote
Blatman Posted January 6, 2006 Posted January 6, 2006 0.0 minutes. Like I say, I know the Westfield marque, I have an eye on the Caterham marque, and I know my cars. Remembers I''ve been a Westfield owner for 16 years, so I've seen my fair share of what market forces do to prices, and owners... Quote
Al Yupright Posted January 6, 2006 Posted January 6, 2006 16 years, impressive. Is that with your now sprint car, or another Westfield that has now moved on? Quote
Blatman Posted January 6, 2006 Posted January 6, 2006 With my sprint car. One owner from new... Quote
Martin Keene Posted January 6, 2006 Posted January 6, 2006 OK to settle this find two 8 year old cars of similar initial cost from Westfield and Caterhams stable and show me the depreciation is similar over those 8 years. Unless the Westfield has had ££££ thrown at it which obviously b*******s up the calculations.So two 8 year old similar new price cars still on initial spec. Go Blatters you're good at searches.... <!--emo& You'd end up with a completely usless result... A Westfield would have a much greater spec than a Caterham built to the same price. It's like comparing the depriciation of a Ford to a BMW... As an example a Caterham R300 costs as follows Caterham R300 Kit: £21,450 Dry Sump: £1,000 LSD: £750 Adjustable Dampers: £1,000 Windscreen: £855 4 Point Harnesses: £150 FIA Roll Bar: £175 Master Switch: £150 Paint: £795 Total: £26,325 Now I can't guarantee that is totally accurate, I would have expected some of that to be standard, but it gives a good indication of what they cost. And for that £26k you still have to build it and it only has 160bhp... Now go and see what a £26k self built Westfield will get you! Edited to add: Not sure what £26k will get you but £29k will get you the new 2000S with all of the above as standard, it's got 250bhp and a 6 speed sequential box included in the price!!! Not quite realised how much of a storming bargin the 2000S was until I compared it wth a Caterham... Quote
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