steppenwolf Posted May 27, 2005 Share Posted May 27, 2005 Mmm. Nice thought, but IMHO far too inaccurate. I quite agree that you couldn't dimension off this but it does 'indicate' that, for example, the wishbones are a reasonable match etc. It also indicates (to me! that the problem is external to the wishbones themselves thus narrowing down the search a little! You are quite right though, we are looking at a very small scale here! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boomy Posted May 27, 2005 Author Share Posted May 27, 2005 Quick update, i'm outside now and have totaly removed the front shocks.The camber is still there even with them removed so i assume it is safe to rule those out? I also measured the wish bones and they are pretty much spot on either side. The uprights (going by sight) look pretty intact too. So, i will have to try the ball joint and bearing route it seems and just hope that can pull it in as much as it is out. Only problem is, i don't have any ball joints, well at least not the correct ones lol. So if anyone wants some brand new (straight off the Westfield site) ball joint sets, let me know, i have them sitting right here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatman Posted May 27, 2005 Share Posted May 27, 2005 Quick update, i'm outside now and have totaly removed the front shocks.The camber is still there even with them removed so i assume it is safe to rule those out? Are you checking this with the car on a proper flat surface? And I don't mean a driveway/car park/anywhere else that looks flat even when checked with a spirit level. *Any* defect in the flatness of the surface could skew the results. I'm not saying that you may not have a problem, but checking it out "on the driveway" won't give accurate enough results. As emntioned, we are talking about a potential error of just a few mm. It needs to go to a place that idealy has a ramp and some alignment gear so that you can quantify *properly and accurately* what you have. With the right measuring gear, you should be able to pinpoint quite quickly what the anomaly is, and how to tackle it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boomy Posted May 27, 2005 Author Share Posted May 27, 2005 I totaly agree with what you are saying, but the wheel looked the same in my mates field (mud and grass used for his crossers and quads), on his road, on my road, on his drive on my drive, in my garage plus it even shows in the pictures we took of it at the house i purchased it from. When i say it looked the same i mean the camber looked exactly the same.100% exactly the same even on all them surfaces. Now with it on axle stands in my garage and no suspension on it at all, it still looks exactly the same, the camber is identical to the pics i posted earlier with it on the ground and the shocks still attatched. So while i agree and know what you mean totaly, i would imagine if it were the shocks making the wheel lean in as it is, it would of looked different maybe on various surfaces and deffo not looked the same with them removed completely? All advice tips and hints greatly appreciated so far people anyway, thanks a lot, you are a damn fine bunch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatman Posted May 27, 2005 Share Posted May 27, 2005 I understand the argument, but sadly, your eyeballs are a long way from being accurate enough to determine even a large tolerance issue without a measuring stick in one hand and a datum point that is accurate to the mm. The fact that it looked the same in a muddy field as it does on a supposed flat surface proves that, and not what you think it proves. You're looking at it from the assumption that your eyes are good enough. They really really aren't... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boomy Posted May 27, 2005 Author Share Posted May 27, 2005 Ok so if i were to go and get it looked at by the proffesionals, and let us say there wasn't much wrong, what would be causing it to still lean in such a way? Only it bugs the hell out of me just to look at it If there was something wrong however, then it still remains to be seen what would be causing it to lean in such a way! I guess what i mean is, if there isn't much you can adjust to get a camber like that out, what would they do? Or (never been to such people before so excuse my ignorance blatman) do they tell you what is wrong and how to fix it? Sorry for being a newbie at all this, i can see what you are suggesting, but in the flesh people are walking up to is asking me why the wheel leans inwards so something either has to be wrong and must be sorted out somehow! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatman Posted May 27, 2005 Share Posted May 27, 2005 A *decent* garage with set up equipment wil not only be able to tell you what you have, but they should be able to offer opinions as to how to fix it. However, make sure the basics are done first. So, check *carefully* all the ball joints. Replace any that are suspect. Once that is done, then off the set up with you. With good equipment and a knowledgeable operator, you should have an answer in under an hour. If you happen to be in the West Country, a trip to A1 Tyres in Bodmin to see Matt would be all you'd need to do. In the Midlands, I think ProComp are the people to see, and up north, Plays Kool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boomy Posted May 27, 2005 Author Share Posted May 27, 2005 Gotcha'. I'm in Kent so will have to have a hunt about.Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatman Posted May 27, 2005 Share Posted May 27, 2005 Maybe a surrey member has an idea if there'd be anyone around who could take a look for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeff oakley Posted May 27, 2005 Share Posted May 27, 2005 Perhaps you could look at swaping the top wishbone to the other side. I know the caster will be out and is not to drive it fitted this way, however, if the lean swaps sides then the top wishbone is suspect. Repeat the process on the bottom and again eliminate them. As blatters says there is no easy way without the tools to do the job correctly, if you are in Kent there will be some one near to Brands who will do suspension set up. Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Loudon - Sponsorship Liaison Posted May 27, 2005 Share Posted May 27, 2005 Looking at your picture, the left (drivers) upright top ball joint mounting lug on the casting looks to be bent downwards compared to the right hand side It may be my eyes playing tricks on me but it dont look right. This could be causing the top ball joint on that side to be bottoming out to its maximum swivel on its housing as the pin looks cocked well over. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurksalot Posted May 27, 2005 Share Posted May 27, 2005 Boomy much respect to all the obviously thoroughly well experienced advice given but a quickie test that I used all the time when I was racing (Karts)was very simple. 1. set the chassis level across the front in the direction between the wheels . 2 use a level to plumb the wheels either over the tyres or better still on bare rims . one May be good (use the level both ways) and therefore with a mate you can measure with a tape the diifernce betweeen the dimension between the rims above and below the nosecone . Scale this down to the distance between the top & bottom wishbones and that is the adjustment you have to find . you can adjust the figures for any camber or caster you require using simple trig. I raced on a budget and besides special equipment for these type of mearsurements wasn't about. Ihope you find enough movement somewhere . Kev Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stu999 Posted May 28, 2005 Share Posted May 28, 2005 1. set the chassis level across the front in the direction between the wheels . 2 use a level to plumb the wheels either over the tyres or better still on bare rims . one May be good (use the level both ways) and therefore with a mate you can measure with a tape the diifernce betweeen the dimension between the rims above and below the nosecone . Scale this down to the distance between the top & bottom wishbones and that is the adjustment you have to find . you can adjust the figures for any camber or caster you require using simple trig. I raced on a budget and besides special equipment for these type of mearsurements wasn't about. Ihope you find enough movement somewhere . Kev Kev - spot on, and good advice. The simplest tools and a bit of thought can give superb results - and save a lot of money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boomy Posted May 28, 2005 Author Share Posted May 28, 2005 Thanks all for advice offered so far. So many options!.I think by using the 'deduction by elimination' method i will begin with replacing the ball joints and carry on from there.The thing is, even if that isn't the problem, they could probably do with new ones anyway, much like a few other bits and bobs so it's no big shakes if the problem still exists when they are fitted. Another thing that was odd is that with no shocks on the car at all and the car on axle stands, when i put the shocks back on (i swapped them over left to right just to check that option) the left hand one lined up perfectly with the holes, the right hand one did not. I had to trolley jack up from underneath to get the bolts back in.I guess it was a full inch too low to insert the bolt. Unless of course that is normal on such vehicles? It just seemed odd that the wheel with the camber lined up perfectly yet the wheel which i assume is correct ( the non cambered one) did not line up with the bolt holes. The shocks are indentical by the way.The way the springs appeared to be more squashed as someone mentioned earlier seems to just be down to the fact that if you can look behind the other shock that wasn't so compressed, it looks exactly the same. It must just be the way the srpings sit as you could create the same effect on either shock by twisting the spring around. I am slowly learning these cars can be a can of worms anyway For example, i just picked up some seats today from Paul and some top wishbones from Mel Fletcher (sorry not sure of your online name mate! ) but the wishbones dont line up with my bolt holes sadly.Plus the seats that fit and look much better than the current bench seat mean i now have to cover the old speaker holes that sat behind the bench as you can see them quite clearly now. I dare say i will also have issues with the larger lamps i grabbed and have still yet to pay for - cheque will be in post asap mate - thanks!. So it's all fun and games.Rumour has it that one day i will actually get to drive it Oh and i think i am in love with V8's now after hearing Mels. I mean i like all variants of the cars, but there is just something about that throaty roar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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