Nick.Petty Posted July 23, 2003 Share Posted July 23, 2003 Pootling down the road an hour or so ago, with younger Brother in passenger seat, me driving wife's new Audi A3 (not brand new, 2000 model 110 bhp diesel). Traffic calming chicane type thing, me lifting off slightly from 40 to about 30, back end comes right round, and despite full opposite lock and a bootful of throttle I couldn't catch it and we did a full 180, across the opposite carriageway, up the kerb across the pavement and came to rest in a patch of grass. No real noise, no real damage as it was a low kerb. But very very unexpected. Have had Pug 1.9Gti and Saxo VTS before, both well known for lift off oversteer and you could play with 'em on the throttle, but this was something else! Not hooning it whatsoever due to the conditions (heavy rain and nearly dark). Scared the sh#t out of me. Be careful out there tonight! Nicko Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatman Posted July 23, 2003 Share Posted July 23, 2003 Oil, diesel, or some other contaminant on the road would be my first instinct. Dodgy shocker/tyre would be next to check. Buy a RWD...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S8ight Posted July 23, 2003 Share Posted July 23, 2003 loads of hot dry weather + rain = nice greasy roads. wife was out in my lexus the other year. mid August, hot and dry for about three weeks, peed down all the previous night and most of the morning. she came round a bend doing about 20-25mph, hit a man hole cover next thing she knows car is broadside on the opposite side of the road. count yourself lucy though, the next thing she heard was an almighty BANG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Stanton Posted July 23, 2003 Share Posted July 23, 2003 Newly re-surfaced or little used roads (such as those used in contra-flows / traffic calming) can be a real mare. With newly laid or little used Bitmac - when getting hot and then rained on - it can release oils from within its "make-up" and get really slippy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samcooke Posted July 24, 2003 Share Posted July 24, 2003 a bootful of throttle I've had unexpected A*** breakaway twice in a barge, both times I checked the road surface, both times it was contaminated once with what smelled like diesel and once with coolant. I nearly died both times but got both back (very untidily) by dipping the clutch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adhawkins Posted July 24, 2003 Share Posted July 24, 2003 I nearly died both times but got both back (very untidily) by dipping the clutch. In a FWD car the accepted method of controlling oversteer is to boot the throttle, it's the only way to 'pull' the rears back into line I think... That's what the touring car drivers do anyway, and it seems to work in TOCA II on my PC Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisbin Posted July 24, 2003 Share Posted July 24, 2003 I've had unexpected A*** breakaway twice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatman Posted July 24, 2003 Share Posted July 24, 2003 In a FWD car the accepted method of controlling oversteer is to boot the throttle, it's the only way to 'pull' the rears back into line I think... That's what the touring car drivers do anyway, and it seems to work in TOCA II on my PC Super tourers have strong LSD's. Most road cars in that situation (including most rear drive cars), would just spin the unloaded wheel...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adhawkins Posted July 24, 2003 Share Posted July 24, 2003 Good point...but it's surely better than nothing...also, how unloaded would the front wheels be in a rear end slide? Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thos Posted July 24, 2003 Share Posted July 24, 2003 I've got a Mk4 Golf (same A3 chassis), and even with tight Koni shocks on the back, I can just about get a bit of lift off oversteer. It's not a characteristic of the car at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatman Posted July 24, 2003 Share Posted July 24, 2003 Doesn't have to be *that* unloaded for a non slippy diff to spin away all the power, just have less weight on it than the other wheel. Bear in mind that a non slipper equipped car will spin away all the power from a standing start, simply because most cars aren't *perfectly* balanced, left to right, so one side is *always* "unloaded", compared to the other side.........power will always find the path of least resistance...... A spinning wheel isn't gripping anything, especially at full throttle, so no, it wouldn't help much, IMO. It'd be even less use in the wet...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adhawkins Posted July 24, 2003 Share Posted July 24, 2003 Ok, I'll get me coat Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gadrego Posted July 24, 2003 Share Posted July 24, 2003 I've got a Mk4 Golf (same A3 chassis), and even with tight Koni shocks on the back, I can just about get a bit of lift off oversteer. It's not a characteristic of the car at all. I also have MkIV. Whilst I'd be inclined to agree with you, I've had a couple of oversteery moments in mine and I don't drive it that hard. It was probably down to something on the road surface but it certainly wasn't expected. Before the golf I had a rover 220GTi. It came with crap tyres and was possibly the most dangerous car I've driven. It had a lot of grip so you could be going round a corner pretty fast and the slightest lift would see the back end swing right out, not just a little step. I even spun it a few times on an airfield whilst doing a slalom course. Glad its gone now. I'd have killed myself in it eventually. Oversteer in the Westfield is something to be encouraged rather than feared. Makes quite a difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Murray Posted July 24, 2003 Share Posted July 24, 2003 Doesn't have to be *that* unloaded for a non slippy diff to spin away all the power, just have less weight on it than the other wheel. Bear in mind that a non slipper equipped car will spin away all the power from a standing start, simply because most cars aren't *perfectly* balanced, left to right, so one side is *always* "unloaded", compared to the other side.........power will always find the path of least resistance...... A spinning wheel isn't gripping anything, especially at full throttle, so no, it wouldn't help much, IMO. It'd be even less use in the wet...... Sorry Blatters, but I disagree. Any Front WD car will 'drive out' of a moderate (even severe) oversteer skid if power is applied, for two reasons: 1) When power is applied, weight is transferred to the rear of the car which helps the rear tyres re-gain grip (i.e. the opposite of lift-off, when weight is transferred to the front causing the oversteer in the first place). 2) The front wheel / wheels will grip to some degree and pull the car back along the line the wheels are facing in. So if you are steering into the skid (i.e. opposite lock), the front wheels will be pointing the correct way. Look at it this way, even if only one wheel has power going through it and it's wheelspinning, it still has *some* grip (otherwise a Front WD car would never be able to set off from a standstill when under full throttle wheelspin). In cases when the car has passed the point of no return and is about to spin, all you need is a *gentle* tug from the front in the right direction to pull it back into the zone where you can collect the car by applying opposite lock only. Jon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Everall Posted July 24, 2003 Share Posted July 24, 2003 At the speed mentioned it just has to be some petrol on the road .Mixed withwater(rain) it is lethal and just like a skating ring or black ice!! Remember "s**t happens"! Terry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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