windy Posted August 8, 2004 Share Posted August 8, 2004 I'm in need of some clarification on a technical issue which is bugging me. At the Hethel sprint I entered my VX engined Escort into the mod prod class along with all the other Escorts & a couple of 205 GTI's. After scrutineering someone lodged a protest with one of the officials, the result being that I was moved to another class on the basis that a VX engine wasn't allowed in my car. The scrutineer said that my car should have a ford engine block in it. Fair enough i thought - I'm only here for the fun - move me into the class where the freindly Wesfield members are - still happy! Thought nothing more until today when I've looked again at the blue book. Page 177 sec 12.5.1 states "The engine block must be externally identifiable as that fitted to the original model or specified option and it must remain in the same capacity class as the original car or the manufacturers specified option for the model and engine. Modification to all components is permitted". Fairly straghtforward and this bit is clear BUT the next paragraph 12.5.2 states "with the exception of any engine fitted to a vehicle complying with 12.1.2 (defines the vehicle), it must be of a make and type produced in at least 5,000 identical units and fitted to a vehicle originally available through the normal commercial channels of a vehicle manufacturer". OK in summary does this mean ANY engine can be fitted to any vehicle providing the VEHICLE and ENGINE are mass produced items? Help Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Stanton Posted August 8, 2004 Share Posted August 8, 2004 Typically "grey" MSA rulings and open to various interpretations Which may be subject to an individuals thoughts. Windy - try calling the MSA see what they have to say - Peter Todd is the main man for Sprints - he may pass you onto someone else Good Luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
windy Posted August 9, 2004 Author Share Posted August 9, 2004 Cheers Mark, Spoke to the MSA (John Ryan) & yes they've indicated that my car might be eligible for the class I was supposed to run in on the day. However they could not confirm this 100% and suggested that I put my query in writing for raising at their next meeting. It seems that I'm not the only one that has raised this issue! All I wanted was a straight answer Yes / No. Seems the MSA don't know their technical regs fully themselves! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Stanton Posted August 9, 2004 Share Posted August 9, 2004 All I wanted was a straight answer Yes / No You have 2 chances of that slim and none Seems the MSA don't know their technical regs fully themselves! Tell me about it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatman Posted August 9, 2004 Share Posted August 9, 2004 So it's a definite maybe then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Westy Posted August 9, 2004 Share Posted August 9, 2004 Possibly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterg Posted August 9, 2004 Share Posted August 9, 2004 Just to add my example of MSA/Scrutineer confusion, I was told at Goodwood that ALL cars need a reverse gear - I argued that for Hillclimbs & Sprints cars classed as 'Racing Cars' don't need it but they insisted it did and let me compete "just this once" it's b*ll*cks, I've looked up the Blue Book - which they kept telling me to read (unfortunately I didn't have it with me) - and it clearly states that all cars should have an operational reverse gear UNLESS allowed exemption by a specific Technical Regulation for which there is one for Hillclimbs & Sprints..... why can't these people learn their own regs - we're all supposed to know them and yet they don't Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatman Posted August 9, 2004 Share Posted August 9, 2004 For future reference, I *always* have a Blue Book on me at events... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
windy Posted August 9, 2004 Author Share Posted August 9, 2004 Watch this space. Perhaps I'll get a response from the MSA before the end of the year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muttley Posted August 16, 2004 Share Posted August 16, 2004 Windy - the way I read the bits you've quoted, it means that you should have an engine that was originally fitted to a MkII Escort AND Ford made at least 5000 of them. If Ford had built a truly stonking motor and fitted it to the Escort but had only ever made 100 of them, then it wouldn't be eligible. Cheers, Muttley. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Westy Posted August 16, 2004 Share Posted August 16, 2004 If Ford had built a truly stonking motor What, like a x-flow, you mean Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Stanton Posted August 16, 2004 Share Posted August 16, 2004 Windy - the way I read the bits you've quoted, it means that you should have an engine that was originally fitted to a MkII Escort AND Ford made at least 5000 of them. And there is the problem - so many of the "Blue Book" rules are open to interpretation I am not saying you are wrong Muttley Yours is merely an option. So much ambiguity - that many officials, scruters and stewards can only apply the "rules" as they interpret them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Navin Posted August 16, 2004 Share Posted August 16, 2004 If Ford had built a truly stonking motor What, like a x-flow, you mean Ah Mrs W Good to see I have converted you to the side of the good Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatman Posted August 16, 2004 Share Posted August 16, 2004 *Makes note* Mrs Westy easily led... *Closes notebook* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Navin Posted August 16, 2004 Share Posted August 16, 2004 *Makes note* Mrs Westy easily led... *Closes notebook* Blatters. You seem to have made a typo which I have corrected here for you. No need to thank me *Makes note* Mrs Westy knows her stuff ... *Closes notebook* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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