johnnystorm Posted July 5, 2004 Share Posted July 5, 2004 Hi everyone, I'm a teacher and planning to run a project at school whereby our students will build a kit-car, sell it on and the proceeds will be used to help keep the project going. We aim to use the project to keep some of our less academic students interested in education and hopefully give them some skills that will be useful in later life. For ease of construction and inevitable resale I have probably narrowed the field to either a Westfield or a Caterham. I appreciate that the people here might have some bias but I would appreciate any advices, hints or tips you would care to share. The final bit might also be to ask if anyone here is in the market for a brand new Car and what spec would they like We are considering the Westfield kit that retails for 13k all in (missing only the hood). Any experiences of this model or what might be likely pitfalls! Thanks for reading this far, JS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Purves Posted July 5, 2004 Share Posted July 5, 2004 One comment would be build to the highest standard possible and then some. Do not use cheap products as you will pay later. And choose the right colour. Now thats a debate all of its own Good luck anyway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adhawkins Posted July 5, 2004 Share Posted July 5, 2004 First thing I would say is that you'd be very lucky to build a car, and then sell it and break even, never mind turn a profit. Sounds like a great project, particularly in terms of keeping less academically minded pupils interested... The only comments I have to make are that you'll need a much bigger budget to get started building a Caterham than you will a Westfield, and that to increase your potential market when you come to sell it on, build something that's a 'tourer' rather than a track monster (as there will be a bigger market for the former). Best of luck. Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deller Posted July 5, 2004 Share Posted July 5, 2004 Have you considered a Westfield SDV kit. These are around 6K plus a sierra as a donor vehicle - good one for a few hundred pounds. For educational value it would be the same as buying a modular build i.e. it has all the same components engine, gearbox, fuel and ignition system etc.etc. It might be a better bet if your working to a budget and I would guess that you might be more likely to make a profit or at least get your money back this way. Robin hoods and locosts are also good value but less desirable (difficult to sell?) and perhaps not as straight forward to build as a westfield. Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnystorm Posted July 5, 2004 Author Share Posted July 5, 2004 First thing I would say is that you'd be very lucky to build a car, and then sell it and break even, never mind turn a profit. I realise making a profit isn't likely but I need to make sure we don't make too much of a loss, i.e. I need to keepthe majority of the funds in circulation! I have considered other brands but would rather stick to the more established cars as I guess they will be easier to sell on and if its a complete kit then its easier to market a known specification. The Kit using a Sierra donor is less desirable as A) I'll have to find a suitable donor B) Its not my money so I want to reduce the element of risk C) Health and safety issues are bad enough anyway without adding the dangers of used engine oil, rusty panels etc! This may sound a bit daft but believe me its amazing we've got this far with the project! Cheers for all your input. Just to repeat a question, is the all in kit for 13k (on the "offers") link on the main Westfield page generally seen as a good deal? Also, has anyone got a photo diary they'd like to share Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adhawkins Posted July 5, 2004 Share Posted July 5, 2004 Also, has anyone got a photo diary they'd like to share There are a number of these. One of the better ones is Steppenwolf's site. Also, there is David East's site. Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salty_monk Posted July 5, 2004 Share Posted July 5, 2004 Robin Hood has got to be the cheapest kit to build (& easier than the Locost) & you are almost certain of getting your money back on that if you keep the costs down & the build quality is good... Used Oil, rusty panels etc.... Don't know enough about Health & Safety to really comment but I am trained in "Risk Assessment" to the standards required & I would have thought if you had all the COSH data to hand as required provided PPE (personal protective equipment) & had a very limited number (say 2 or 3) of your more trustworthy pupils in a controlled environment on the de-build & clean up side of things then the risk factor is actually quite low.... With a "hood" you are only playing with about £3k/£4k anyway so your risk factor is already cut to 25% of that with a brand new westfield build (it'll also probably be more interesting if you go for a crossflow or Pinto as there's more to see & do with the engine than just plugging in a laptop....) Class idea though - wish I'd had a teacher to do that sort of project with at school Make sure the "good" kids don't miss out though... that used to really P155 me off at school when the "wayward" kids seemed to get rewarded just to stop them being a pain in the to all... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karlgurney Posted July 5, 2004 Share Posted July 5, 2004 I think its a great idea, don't forget the extra costs including SVA and registration. If you go the factory package route the car will get a new registration which could be more desirable to a potentail buyers market, rather than a Q plate. I went for the Q plate and built the car to a budget, with future grades planned when money allows. I would have loved to take on a project like this in school and my school used to build and race hovercrafts, but that ceased just before i got there . If you could keep it as a rolling project where one car is completed each year if would give students in the year below an incentive and something to look forward to for the next school year. Even if you only lose a couple of grand over the year it would still be a worth while project IMHO Best of luck and i would be interested to hear your progress. Karl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timd Posted July 5, 2004 Share Posted July 5, 2004 Top idea, wish my school had done stuff like this! Only thing I can see as a problem is, how are you gonna make a 120 hour build take a class of people a term/year to complete?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
busapower2001 Posted July 5, 2004 Share Posted July 5, 2004 Spec seems ok. Just make sure you upgrade roll over bar to RAC type (only a few hundred more anyway) and safer (as has been discussed many a time on here). I would also loose the inertial seat belts and go for 4 point willans harness. I suspect the "egg yolk" yellow (golden yellow I think it's called) is the safest (financially) colour to choose as it seems to be the most popular. You can also buy a bike engined complete kit (less engine! for 10K new. Second hand engines for 1-3K depending on model (fireblade/black bird/hayabusa). Desirable options add another 3k ish (dry sump, 4 pot caliper brakes at front, anti roll bars front and rear, rac roll over bar). So anything from 11k to 16 k gets you a sorted bike engined model (no windscreen to faff around with either). And no they aren't pure track cars before anyone says they are ! However, overall I suspect the Zetec option is the better choice if you are building the car as an ongoing concern. You could perhaps do a bike engined one the following year :-) Nice idea teach - your pupils will think your the best for it! I hope it comes off for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Posted July 5, 2004 Share Posted July 5, 2004 Used Oil, rusty panels etc.... Don't know enough about Health & Safety to really comment but I am trained in "Risk Assessment" to the standards required & I would have thought if you had all the COSH data to hand as required provided PPE (personal protective equipment) Used engine oil is hazardous waste because it's a Cat 1 carcinogen. Think perhaps JS may be right that some people may not be happy exposing kids to this. JS - not easy to do, but you touched on it - your best bet to minimise loss of funds would be to get a commission from someone to build a car to their spec. Have you asked the factory if they might let this be known to potential buyers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Seabrook Posted July 5, 2004 Share Posted July 5, 2004 Got to agree with busapower2001 bike engine would be good for resale prices if you can keep within a tight build budget. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldman Posted July 5, 2004 Share Posted July 5, 2004 Marvelous idea I'll leave the advice to the more experienced tho. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnystorm Posted July 5, 2004 Author Share Posted July 5, 2004 Only thing I can see as a problem is, how are you gonna make a 120 hour build take a class of people a term/year to complete?? 120hrs to build=5 hours a week for 38 school weeks. The kids will alo be studying a BTEC course in that time. I reckon it will be a close call to get it done in that time and after-school partcipation by the whole team is a requirement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnystorm Posted July 5, 2004 Author Share Posted July 5, 2004 If you could keep it as a rolling project where one car is completed each year if would give students in the year below an incentive and something to look forward to for the next school year. Even if you only lose a couple of grand over the year it would still be a worth while project IMHO Best of luck and i would be interested to hear your progress. Thats the plan, provided I can get the major chunk back for the car (and we can claim the VAT back ) then it should be a rolling programme. As the kids will be on a two year course the second year could include some peer mentoring by the "experienced" builders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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