Man On The Clapham Omnibus Posted May 8, 2004 Share Posted May 8, 2004 Chaz, The only thing that would deter me from carrying out your, very sound and prudent, advice is the removal of a Pinto camcover that doesn't leak, will usually leave you with one that does! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Shadow Posted May 8, 2004 Author Share Posted May 8, 2004 I've just poped the pugs out after another attempt with a fully chraged battery, still no joy but one thing seems odd, number one plug looks as if it is burning the other look as though they are not. If you look on the pic one seem clean the rest are black .... These are new plugs as well. ANy ideas http://avatars.gentlyhosting.co.uk/1324.jpeg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chazpowerslide Posted May 9, 2004 Share Posted May 9, 2004 If you have fuel, compression and sparks at the right time it will run, provided it's been (re) built correctly. I would'nt worry too much about the black on the plugs it will burn off as the motor heats up as long as the carb/s are reasonably well set up and the non blackend one shows signs of combustion too. IMO you probhably still have the HT (plug) leads on in the wrong order. Take your time and follow things through logically. The plugs are black(ish) therefore you have fuel and spark (though the spark may not be happening at the right time) If you have combustion you probhably have compression also. Take off the rocker cover and establish the firing position (of the rotor arm in the dizzy) of No1 cylinder as I described. Re-fit the leads in the correct order as per the engines firing order. Accruatly set the points gap. Set No1 on the firing stroke at TDC by the marks in the crank pully and front cover (again, look at the cam to definatly establish that No1 is on the firing stroke) Loosen the dizzy clamp bolt (so you can rotate the dizzy) Fit a test lamp between earth (chassis ground) and the black and white wire that feeds the contact breaker then turn the ignition on If the points are closed the teat lamp will be on, if they are open it won't be. You now have the engine mechanically set at the begining of the power stroke (TDC at the end of the compression stroke/begining of the power stroke) you now need to set the timing (spark) to occoure at this point (IE when the rotor arm is pointing at where No1 should be and therefore the points should just be opening to turn off the primary windings in the coil) Look down at the dizzy (and if, as Man On The Clapham Omnibus says, the dizzy rotates clockwise) you need to rotate the dizzy clockwise till the test lamp comes on IE the points are shut (turning the dizzy clockwise is retarding the ignition (making the spark happen closer to TDC and visa versa) and the arm that opens the points will be on the opening ramp of the lobe on the distributer cam of No1 cylinder (IE turning the dizzy counter clockwise opens the points) Then slowly rotate the dizzy counter clockwise so the points are just begining to open and stop just as the test lamp goes out. Carefully tighten the dizzy clamp bolt. You have now statically timed the engine to fire No1 (and therefore Nos 2,4 and 4) at TDC give or take a few degrees. Remove the test lamp re-fit the dizzy cap. You now know that the HT leads are on in the correct order and the spark is timed to occour at about TDC (give or take a degree or two, but good enough to start the engine) From what you have described I'd be supprised f it did'nt start. Once it's running you can then dynamically re-set the timing (with a timing lamp) If thats all gobble de gook to you, PM me with your number and I'll go through it with you on the 'phone. Chaz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Man On The Clapham Omnibus Posted May 9, 2004 Share Posted May 9, 2004 Chaz, Surely you turn the distributor AGAINST the direction of rotation to advance? I don't know the static timing but I believe it ought to be 14 BTDC at 900 rpm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chazpowerslide Posted May 9, 2004 Share Posted May 9, 2004 Imagin the lug on the points that runs on the dizzy cam being right on the apex of the dizzy cam of No1 cylinder with No1 at TDC on the firing stroke (points fully open) If the direction of rotation of the the rotor arm is clockwise, when the dizzy body is rotated clockwise the points opperating lug will slide down the opening ramp of the dizzy lobe closing the points and retarding the ignition (making the spark happen closer to TDC) Remember, you are rotating the dizzy in relation to the Static lobe on the dizzy cam, the engine is static. Viewed from above the opening ramps on the dizzy cam are on the right and the closing ramps are on the left. Swinging the dizzy against the direction of rotation of the rotor arm (counter clock in this case) advanves the ignition (takes the spark further away from TDC as you are opening the points sooner) I think you may have confused "advance" with being closer to TDC instead of being further back (advanced) from TDC. The closer you bring the spark to TDC the more retarded the ignition is. Hope that clarifies. Chaz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Shadow Posted May 9, 2004 Author Share Posted May 9, 2004 Chaz, I've read through all of this and it makes sence, however I have a lumingtion electronic ignition... so no points..... Have any sugestions.... Thanks for helping me out by the way guys... I'm more used to bike's, perhaps I should of gone BEC...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Man On The Clapham Omnibus Posted May 9, 2004 Share Posted May 9, 2004 Chas, I don't want to start anything here, God knows things get heated here all to easily, but if you turn the dizzy clockwise when it's guts are rotating clockwise you will delay the switching and, therefore, delay the spark. Turn it anticlock, and you'll bring it to firing earlier (it goes to meet the cam lobe) and therefore advancing it. It's the opening of the points that causes the sprk, of course but that wouldn't make any difference to the logic. It's obvious that you are experienced in things automotive but I'm sorry but I really think what you're saying isn't right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hilux Posted May 9, 2004 Share Posted May 9, 2004 This is fool proof............. Small piece of bent wire in open spark plug hole in no 1 cylinder resting on top of piston. Rotate engine by hand (remove remaining plugs to make it easier) until the wire stops being pushed up. This will be top dead centre on either the compression or exhaust stroke. Rock the engine back and forwards slightly and you will feel the up/down movement at the top of the stroke as the piston starts its journey back down again. Look at your timing marks, if its nearly there you are on TDC on the correct stroke, ie ignition. If its miles away then you are on the wrong stroke, ie exhaust. It doesnt really matter where the rotor arm in the dizzy is as long as the plug lead goes to no 1 spark plug (front of engine) and corresponds to the nearest terminal in the dizzy cap to the end of the rotor arm where it is pointing when at TDC on the ignition stroke. Then clockwise install the remaining leads to no 3, no 4 and finally no 2 Once fired, the advance/retard can be set. If youve got petrol in a fuel air vapour and a reasonable spark at `nearly` the right time it`ll run believe me (engines run even when miles out) Then follow guidance etc re setting/positioning dizzy/timing if needed. HTH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Shadow Posted June 17, 2004 Author Share Posted June 17, 2004 I have finaly got it running It turns out that I had a duff set of HT leads......... She runs like a dream and sounds great Now to get the brakes bled, third attempt.. going try some of the methods posted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Man On The Clapham Omnibus Posted June 18, 2004 Share Posted June 18, 2004 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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