Electricity bills !

[Kit Car Electronics and Essex AO]

It's fascinating how many people are convinced that EV's can't work 'for them' without having tried. Is it easy to jump from an ICE car to an EV and use it in exactly the same way? No, it isn't. You need to be comfortable with satnav route planning, install apps, learn where the fastest, cheapest, most reliable chargers are dotted around all over the country and learn what the car is capable of and what works best for it. Or buy a Tesla, which is infuriatingly well catered for in those respects.

 

For example, for long journeys it isn't even enough to navigate to a charger location. The car also has to KNOW it's going to that charger, as well as knowing what the charger capacity is, and it needs to know that more than 30mins beforehand because this lets it condition the battery (heating or cooling) in preparation, otherwise it won't hit peak charging speeds. 

[corsechris]

5 hours ago, Blatman said:

The assertion was, and still is that for people who do more than "commute", and there are plenty of us, and (a point which perhaps I failed to make as clear as I wanted) where road transport infrastructre is the only option for the journey, EV's are a non starter. Perhaps non-starter was a bit harsh. Definitely a compromise that needs careful thought.

I did also say it was about me and my use case as that is all I have direct experience of. As I say, there are plenty of us driving far in excess of the double charge range of an EV quite a lot of the time. EV's turn those journeys into a potentially costly affair in both "fuel" and time.

 

Not sure I agree with ICE engines being more unreliable, the Ford Eco-Bang notwithstanding (wet belts? Really, Mr Ford?) 

 

I think we agree on your use case. 600+ miles a day sounds like purgatory to me though.

 

Sadly, there are a lot of unreliable engines out there these days. Wet belts are sadly very common now, and just as problematic in many brands. MB even managed to cram one behind the flywheel on their A45 engine. Even Honda use them now. And the engines that still have chains? Ingenium anyone? But they all seem to suffer chain issues to some degree. Direct injection WILL lead to clogged inlet ports that need cleaning.  EGR clogs, NOx sensors failing with expensive regularity, DPF clogging, low tension piston rings leading to early engine demise.  The list goes on. The majority of these issues arise from the ever increasing demands for reduced emissions and increased efficiency. Many are aggravated by short trips. Proper servicing can help, but not prevent all these issues.

 

Some actual stats on engine lifespan would be interesting. There is a vague claim that ICE lasts 150 to 300k miles…but I suspect there won’t be many achieving that figure, particularly Ford and JLR….oh, and BMW with their appetite for big end bearings.

 

Not sure when ICE peaked in terms of longevity. Maybe the 90’s?  GDI & EGR started the rot imo. 

[corsechris]

2 hours ago, Kit Car Electronics and Essex AO said:

It's fascinating how many people are convinced that EV's can't work 'for them' without having tried. Is it easy to jump from an ICE car to an EV and use it in exactly the same way? No, it isn't. You need to be comfortable with satnav route planning, install apps, learn where the fastest, cheapest, most reliable chargers are dotted around all over the country and learn what the car is capable of and what works best for it. Or buy a Tesla, which is infuriatingly well catered for in those respects.

 

For example, for long journeys it isn't even enough to navigate to a charger location. The car also has to KNOW it's going to that charger, as well as knowing what the charger capacity is, and it needs to know that more than 30mins beforehand because this lets it condition the battery (heating or cooling) in preparation, otherwise it won't hit peak charging speeds. 

A key point there I think - resistance to change. Much of the potential burden can and should be handled by the car itself. For a long time I would have said if anyone needs regular long trips, Tesla was the only sensible answer, but that is thankfully changing. It used to be kind of frustrating, now it has darker undertones thanks to the political persuasion of musk. Tesla have somewhat opened up their charging network to non-tesla cars, but there are caveats and ad-hoc changes which is exactly what nobody needs or wants.

 

No denying there are still lots of issues with charging networks in this country, but it does look to be getting organised finally, albeit slowly. Octopus do an all you can eat subscription that gets you unlimited home charging for £30 a month. 

 

For those that won’t be doing long trips much or at all, if they can home charge, I just can’t see the objection myself. I had a PHEV because I thought it gave best of both worlds - no cost on short trips, long range when needed. In hindsight, I think that was true, but it also came with the worst of both worlds. Complexity and cost.

 

Time will tell if my move to EV was the right one for ME or not. At the moment, I really can’t see any downsides to it. Most of my driving will be done on solar that I already get paid for even if I use it myself. My electricity tariff gets me a discount on charging at apparently almost 1 million charge points in the UK (although I bet a large number of those are not all that useful). The car has a 2 year service interval at which the big ticket item is new wiper blades…..

 

 

eta correction to Octopus charging offer. 

[joolz]

1 hour ago, corsechris said:

A key point there I think - resistance to change. Much of the potential burden can and should be handled by the car itself. For a long time I would have said if anyone needs regular long trips, Tesla was the only sensible answer, but that is thankfully changing. It used to be kind of frustrating, now it has darker undertones thanks to the political persuasion of musk. Tesla have somewhat opened up their charging network to non-tesla cars, but there are caveats and ad-hoc changes which is exactly what nobody needs or wants.

 

No denying there are still lots of issues with charging networks in this country, but it does look to be getting organised finally, albeit slowly. Octopus do an all you can eat subscription that gets you unlimited home charging for £30 a month. 

 

For those that won’t be doing long trips much or at all, if they can home charge, I just can’t see the objection myself. I had a PHEV because I thought it gave best of both worlds - no cost on short trips, long range when needed. In hindsight, I think that was true, but it also came with the worst of both worlds. Complexity and cost.

 

Time will tell if my move to EV was the right one for ME or not. At the moment, I really can’t see any downsides to it. Most of my driving will be done on solar that I already get paid for even if I use it myself. My electricity tariff gets me a discount on charging at apparently almost 1 million charge points in the UK (although I bet a large number of those are not all that useful). The car has a 2 year service interval at which the big ticket item is new wiper blades…..

 

 

eta correction to Octopus charging offer. 

One of the reps for a local motor factors I use told me that at the main dealerships people are trading in their full electric cars for hybrids. Is range anxiety still an issue? Might we need psychologists in dealerships alongside sales people?

On a personal point my 267k miles passat is still going strong, is averaging just over 60mpg including towing regularly. It cost very little to buy and costs very little to run. I'm in no hurry to go electric.

[Flying Carrot Steve]

On 09/06/2025 at 17:44, Craigieboy said:

I watched a bit of Simon Reeve in Norway on the BBC. Apparently before North Sea oil was discovered in 1969, it was pretty much a backwater with fishing the only industry. 

They however invested their oil money and now have a 13 trillion public bond. So they can fund all the public spending they want and however much they spend per year the interest on the bond is soo much, it still goes up. 

 

 

Yes I watched that too, made me realise how absolutely useless the governments here have been at 'putting the great back in Great Britain' We may be a wealthy country but we are definitely not a country full of wealthy citizens like Norway seems to be by comparison. 

[dvd8n]

2 hours ago, corsechris said:

A key point there I think - resistance to change.

 

I think that it's more than that - I think that it's a resistance to forced change - especially when it's badly thought through change.

 

BEVs definitely have a very good use case; for some things they're great but they're very obviously not a universal answer.  Yet the sale of ICE and hybrid alternatives are getting banned.

 

15 minute neighbourhoods are a great idea but instead of encouraging small local businesses they try to do it by banjaxing the road system instead. 

 

An increase in the use of public transport would be great but encourage it by providing that public transport regularly at a sensible price, not by taxing us our of cars.

 

It's politicians that need psychologists, not the public.

[corsechris]

I don’t think we will see the changes threatened/promised materialising personally.  The deadlines will get pushed back & diluted, the problem will get kicked down the road again and again. Short term expedience will always win out. 
 

[corsechris]

Charge anxiety would be a better description. Think back to our last petrol shortage when we all had ‘range anxiety’. We also suddenly discovered how far our cars could go on a gallon when driven carefully too. 
 

@joolz my MOT tester just sold his Passat. Similar story to yours, 260k, he paid £700 for it about 5 years ago IIRC. Key thing there is it predates the worst of the modern ‘improvements’. I sincerely doubt a current equivalent would perform for you as well as the Passat does.

 

The perception, or worse, reality of being forced to adopt something new is always going to be unpopular. We naturally want to carry on just as we are. Stick to the familiar. 

[dvd8n]

2 hours ago, corsechris said:

I sincerely doubt a current equivalent would perform for you as well as the Passat does.

 

That's certainly true.  We seem to have gone from over built boat anchor engines that easily outlived the rot box bodies that they were installed into, to engines with 'improvements' like wet belts, low tension piston rings, water thin oils and the like that consign otherwise good condition cars to the scrapper.

[Flying Carrot Steve]

42 minutes ago, dvd8n said:

 

That's certainly true.  We seem to have gone from over built boat anchor engines that easily outlived the rot box bodies that they were installed into, to engines with 'improvements' like wet belts, low tension piston rings, water thin oils and the like that consign otherwise good condition cars to the scrapper.

 

 

I believe they call it 'inbuilt obsolescence'  Manufacturers love that stuff. More repair work, shorter lifespan, more sales, more profit etc

[dvd8n]

8 minutes ago, Flying Carrot Steve said:

 

 

I believe they call it 'inbuilt obsolescence'  Manufacturers love that stuff. More repair work, shorter lifespan, more sales, more profit etc

 

I think that used to be the case but now I think that we've just reached the point where it's really hard to hit increasingly stringent emissions standards without badly compromising reliability.