Tricky Posted June 29, 2022 Share Posted June 29, 2022 Yes Stephen you are get another Westfield! Seriously, you're only here once so go with your heart and don't overthink it. The way things are going with energy, world's resources, lithium, cost of living generally, you should do what makes you happy. I agree with the hydrogen theory, (not sure if you remember me from Prescott about 7 years ago) but I'm a gas engineer, hydrogen is already being trialled in several estates around the country blended with methane to lower emissions. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephenh Posted June 29, 2022 Author Share Posted June 29, 2022 JCB Power Systems are actively working on hydrogen powered engines for the JCB "diggers" of the future, I am reliably informed, in fact I believe they already have a working experimental engine I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim RS Posted June 29, 2022 Share Posted June 29, 2022 25 minutes ago, stephenh said: JCB Power Systems are actively working on hydrogen powered engines for the JCB "diggers" of the future, I am reliably informed, in fact I believe they already have a working experimental engine I think. Loads of manufacturers have good working prototypes for using hydrogen but the stumbling block is producing the gas cheaply and storing safely. Come on you scientists there must be an easy way of making the gas, after all most of the Earths surface is covered in the stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatman Posted June 29, 2022 Share Posted June 29, 2022 Most of the earths crust (surface) is oxygen, silicon and aluminium. Most of the atmosphere, and indeed the rest of the universe, is hydrogen... Sorry... [/pedant] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim RS Posted June 29, 2022 Share Posted June 29, 2022 H2O Water 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatman Posted June 29, 2022 Share Posted June 29, 2022 Potato / potatoe... Pretty sure transporting water is easier that transporting hydrogen though 😁 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Labrat Posted June 29, 2022 Share Posted June 29, 2022 If you can afford it, and you like it why not? I would only go diesel if you do high miles/long journeys though. My wife's Yeti has been a pain with the DPF blocking since she only goes 3-4 miles in it on a run to the shops or the horse (it was originally bought for a 140 mile round commute twice a week). I keep thinking I should move my Skoda Superb L&K Tdi 4x4 estate on, but then I drive it and think 'what the hell can I buy that won't need an extra £20-30K putting into it?'. It did 48mpg on a run to Fountains Abbey at the weekend (driven carefully it will do 40mpg driving locally) with the family and loads of stuff for a long day out and it has everything you could want on it. It's the 5th Skoda I have had (Octavia 4x4 Tdi, Fabia Vrs, Octavia Vrs and Yeti 4x4) but I think if I did change I would move away from Skoda this time as I don't really like the latest styling as much and they aren't as good value as they once were, so I'll probably keep it. Having said this I really do feel the urge to buy an Alfa Guilia QF or an Audi RS6 Avant (c7) just because... but I'd have to sell the Westy to afford either of these and I don't think I could do that yet (if ever). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dombanks Posted July 1, 2022 Share Posted July 1, 2022 On 29/06/2022 at 07:25, Tricky said: I agree with the hydrogen theory, (not sure if you remember me from Prescott about 7 years ago) but I'm a gas engineer, hydrogen is already being trialled in several estates around the country blended with methane to lower emissions. we've been doing at keele for ages and i think generate our own. storage is an issue as we cant store enough of it yet. Ironically our wind and solar are that good that we have to loose energy at certain times which is why we have free charging. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephenh Posted July 1, 2022 Author Share Posted July 1, 2022 What about generating the hydrogen onboard the vehicle? I realise that is likely to involve battery power, but maybe nothing like the battery power needed to drive an all electric car? Maybe I'm wrong, just thinking out loud. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kit Car Electronics Posted July 1, 2022 Share Posted July 1, 2022 1 minute ago, stephenh said: What about generating the hydrogen onboard the vehicle? I realise that is likely to involve battery power, but maybe nothing like the battery power needed to drive an all electric car? Maybe I'm wrong, just thinking out loud. Yes, you're wrong 🙂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephenh Posted July 1, 2022 Author Share Posted July 1, 2022 2 hours ago, Kit Car Electronics said: Yes, you're wrong 🙂 OK, in that case you are going to need a very high pressure tank on board to contain the hydrogen fuel, unless the molecules in water can be split chemically rather than electrically. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corsechris Posted July 1, 2022 Share Posted July 1, 2022 25 minutes ago, stephenh said: OK, in that case you are going to need a very high pressure tank on board to contain the hydrogen fuel, unless the molecules in water can be split chemically rather than electrically. And there is one of the many issues with H2 as fuel or energy store. Life of said pressure vessel. Note the "do not refute after" date on the filler flap of a Toyota Mirai. The biggest stumbling block for H2 is producing the stuff. Takes a lot of electricity if you are doing it by electrolysis and it's overall very inefficient, or it's just plain dirty if you reform gas, as well as inefficient. Once we solve fusion power and have abundant free electricity, it'll be another matter. Meanwhile, we are stuck with the least-worst option of BEV. Battery life is now becoming a non-issue for most users, range too is increasing, still got a long way to go on the energy density of the things but the relative simplicity is hard to beat. An HFCEV still needs a reasonably sized battery or perhaps super capacitor to handle demand peaks and energy recovery on braking so it's effectively hybrid with the added complexity that brings, and the manufacturers like to gloss over the lifespan of the HFC as well. Basically, all the options are crap! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kit Car Electronics Posted July 1, 2022 Share Posted July 1, 2022 yes, the on-board tanks for hydrogen fuel cells are quite impressive - the energy density of hydrogen means only 5kg may often be needed. The downside on an energy calculation is that converting hydrogen to electricity in a fuel cell is only about 50% efficient, so in most cases it will be much more efficient to skip the hydrogen phase and just charge a battery electric vehicle directly. However, for some cases such as continuous use/ heavy duty/ freight etc it isn't practical to use batteries alone - they weigh a lot, deteriorate with fast charging and charging may never be fast enough for these cases. So despite the fact there are only currently 14 hydrogen filling stations in UK, we may still see fuel cells being adopted for heavy commercial use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corsechris Posted July 1, 2022 Share Posted July 1, 2022 Earlier today I typed a huge great bit....then deleted it. In it, I made the same point, H2 may well have a good place in HGV, trains, shipping....but not for a while yet. Or rather, not until we can solve the problem of making the stuff in bulk with minimal environmental impact. We'll gloss over the whole lack of infrastructure thing too, just for the sake of expedience. I get the aversion/anger/rage/denial about the end of ICE - it appeals to many on a visceral level - me too, to a point....but assuming there is still a world when we wake up tomorrow, we simply can't keep burning **** to get about and keep ourselves warm...or we'll soon be warmer than anybody wants to be. I see F1 are getting all excited about their zero carbon fuel...but they don't publish any details. It's certainly do-able, and has been done, but cheap it ain't (yet). I suppose the desert nations that traditionally rely on oil revenue can at least make use of their vast areas of sandy wasteland to build massive solar powered synthetic fuel production centres. Makes more sense than the previous suggestions of them planting solar cells as it's easier to move millions of barrels of liquid round the globe than it is to shift GW of electrical power. Orbiting solar PV generators providing endless cheap electricity via beamed power, H2 produced by electrolysis using this cheap power to run all our vehicles and heating etc. Yay, sorted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Man On The Clapham Omnibus Posted July 1, 2022 Share Posted July 1, 2022 Any prospect of super-capacitors improving sufficiently? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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