catflap Posted January 16, 2004 Share Posted January 16, 2004 Hay all, I have a couple of odd questions for the clever people here Just thinking out aloud really….. If one was to build a mid engine, rear wheel drive kit car such as the Aeon, would it be possible (read: feasible….read: not too expensive) To use a ford cossworth (2L turbo variety), or a Chevy V8 (would the gear box be too big- hard one I know as we don’t know the size of the chassis) Also, where would one look to find either a st220 3.0 v6 engine, or the jaguar variety. Im trying to compare the available options, and their price vs pound, as im looking for around 250hp, but more if the engine is heaver. And finaly would 250bhp+ be too much fro a 700kg kitcar? Thanks all… just doing some research into a potential build. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott beeland Posted January 16, 2004 Share Posted January 16, 2004 And finaly would 250bhp+ be too much fro a 700kg kitcar? . There's plenty of sub 550kg westfields around with 250 bhp plus...... How much is too much....that's the question Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick M Posted January 16, 2004 Share Posted January 16, 2004 I reckon you need to figure out what sort of car you want to build, and then see which of their usual engine options is the most appealing. Chevy V8s are all well and good, but they're pretty expensive by the time you've added a gearbox. They're not exactly kicking around in scrapyards... Rover V8s on the other hand are cheap as chips... Cossie lumps are OK, but heavy and you need to know what you're looking at to make sure you haven't got a Pintworth (Pinto bottom end with a Cossie head). They may also have lead a hard life. For similar reasons (and I'm sure the rest of the VX contingent will lynch me for saying this...) I'm not sure I'd go for a 2.0 VX any more. It's a great engine, but I think there are better options available now. Such as, *maybe* the Duratex, once other people have done your R&D for you and blown a few up to find the limits V6s are one option which refuses to budge from my head too !! I still have a vague hankering to put one in a Westfield, probably a 2.5 or 3.0 GM one. The Ford engines are pretty smooth - not sure if the ST220 engine is based on the Mazda unit or not, but might be worth doing some research on. Questions you need to think about are - do I need to dry sump it ? And what tuning parts are available, e.g. throttle bodies, cams, etc. Another option is the engine they're putting in the back of the XTR4 - the Audi lump. 250bhp is eminently doable with some electronics and maybe a few other bits. And there's a fair bit of info available out there from people who are already running engines with this sort of power output. Or what about a Honda VTEC engine of some form - maybe out of a Civic Type R or an S2000 ? Depending on the orientation of the engine, gearboxes may be an issue but people are cramming them in the back of Lotus Elises. This is all just my opinion so don't take it as gospel or anything, but hopefully it will give you a few ideas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markcoopers Posted January 16, 2004 Share Posted January 16, 2004 I had a look at one of them the other day, Exeter I think it was, interesting bit of kit. St220/Jag V6, try salvage yards. As for "too big-hard one" gearboxes, most are. Seriously though, probably need a Transaxel set up, such as the Renult 25, Alfa 75 or Porsche G-spot box. Anyone built an Ultima or GT40 replica would be a mind of information for you I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scruffythefirst Posted January 17, 2004 Share Posted January 17, 2004 cossie 2lt turbo will give you 350 bhp reliably at stage 3 of tune (assuming its resonably healthy to start with) this won't require any internal mods, just decent intercooler (v. important) chip, injectors, new map sensor and an actuator tweak. No messing about with cams pocketing pistons etc - Which would be a lot less than getting a rover v8 to that power, however the rover v8 will be a lot less to start with. Pays your money and takes your choice. The block you want is marked 200 in big letters, the 202 block is (from a transit i believe) and works fine but rare now. 205 is also fine up to 400bhp. 2wd and 4wd stuff is pretty much interchangeable but the 4wd stuff is best. RSOC and passion ford are the best places for cossie tuning, plenty of tuners websites around too. All tried and tested. There are several dax's kicking about with 350-450bhp, some are 4wd and some arent. Theres also a 400kg 350bhp bike engined car. I believe there are a few cossie engined westfields kicking about too. You just can't have too much power (i'm sure i'll scare myself silly when i finaly get mine built) HTH Scruffy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S8ight Posted January 17, 2004 Share Posted January 17, 2004 i know where there is a brand new Jav V6 motor if your interested ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timd Posted January 17, 2004 Share Posted January 17, 2004 And finaly would 250bhp+ be too much fro a 700kg kitcar? No, it's great. Provided the chassis can take it... FWIW, if going for a V6 don't forget that you'll incur higher costs in some areas, such as exhausts, silencers, throttle bodies etc etc.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bananaman Posted January 17, 2004 Share Posted January 17, 2004 I recon that non-standard installations are gonna incure many extra/hidden costs. If you have a 'limited' buget than I'd go for a standard engine(one that the company have installed) & tune it. Not sure what engines the Aeon use but if its zetec od duratec then you can get decent power out of these and especially with the zetec you should be able to get hold of the cheap enough. IMHO Andy P.S. I think the Alfa V6 is a beutiful engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catflap Posted January 17, 2004 Author Share Posted January 17, 2004 Thanks yall, that sort of confirmed what I already suspected, seems a few of us like the idea of the V6. Extra costs are to be expected of course (as mentioned above) Anyone know a ball park figure of how much one of these lumps costs? (cant seem to find any prices on line), I should imagine it would sound very nice. I think the standard engine in the aeon is the ducatec, but keith at their factory mentioned the duratec v6 would fit in perfectly (that’s what got me thinking, but they don’t have any prices on them as of yet – its early days for them) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Stanton Posted January 17, 2004 Share Posted January 17, 2004 No, it's great. Provided the chassis can take it... Spot on Tim + to add how do you intend to make all that BHP tractable and useable If you really need to ask If one was to build a mid engine, rear wheel drive kit car such as the Aeon, would it be possible (read: feasible….read: not too expensive) I think by asking that you already know the answer Lots of £££ and then some more Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catflap Posted January 17, 2004 Author Share Posted January 17, 2004 I don’t think I made myself clear there mark, or you have misunderstood. The point is that the chassis is already set up for rear engine. I am enquiring about alternative engine choices to the recommended duratec, so I don’t see how my question makes it more expensive. As yet there are no standard parts for such an installation, so choosing an cosworth or another engine for that matter would not in itself produce major higher costs, as the same bits would have to be fabricated is I used a duratec. What I was interested in is, someone said ahh to use a cozzy you’ll need to spend thousands coz the gearbox faces the worn way or something along those lines, hence I said feasible, if we are only talking a few thousand more for a superior engine choice at build time then to me it makes sense, hope I made myself a little more clear that time J. All sorts of options on the table, so im just doing some ground work, before I get serious. The more i know about it the better choice i can make BIG STICKY TYRES Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westfieldman Posted January 17, 2004 Share Posted January 17, 2004 From Mountunes web site 280bhp Mountune I4 Ford Duratec HE engine Ref: DI4280 At 280bhp this is a true "touring car" spec. engine at a fraction of the cost of a full 'works' unit. This fully built engine package is supplied on a brand new base unit. The price shown includes parts, engine management, labour, dyno test and the base engine. Full detailed specifications are available from mountune Sales. Price: £12,600.00 (Excluding: VAT at 17.5%, delivery and shipping) Please contact us by phone, fax or e-mail to order this product. Has this got enough power for you it also light around 92 kgs. or on their web site there is Jaguar and orther engines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catflap Posted January 17, 2004 Author Share Posted January 17, 2004 I hope you were being facetious there Aye it has the power, but a hefty price tag to boot, my search is to find similar levels of power at a fraction of the cost J Id turbo busa before I spend that much on an engine but that’s another story Seriously though , im sure (more hope) its possible to reach around 250bhp for sensible money? The v6 fro example? They make not far of this in the jag set-up I gather. It does sound nice though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catflap Posted January 17, 2004 Author Share Posted January 17, 2004 oooooo 300bhp V6 ProCar type engine Ref: Jag300 The modern, all alloy design of the 3.0litre V6 is capable of high power outputs. Engine specifications include an inlet throttle body assembly, new camshaft profiles and fully programmable motorsport ECU. Prices depend on exact spec. Found on their site...yummy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Stanton Posted January 17, 2004 Share Posted January 17, 2004 BIG STICKY TYRES Won't be a road car then (read: feasible….read: not too expensive) Hence my mis-understanding Good Luck with the beastie don't count the pennies just spend em - its the only way Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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