Newbie looking to purchase a westfield

[Rob Hunter - Club Secretary]

Hi John, as Dave says,  the pedals and floors are now pretty standard. 

 

My first Westfield didn't have lowered floors and had top mounted pedals, but it was a 1996 SEIW. I made a small modification to the seat runners and added a quick release boss to make it more comfortable. It was tight for my clutch foot (normally rested my foot under the pedal) but I covered about 2500 enjoyable miles in 6 months before I upgraded to my current car. 

 

My current car is snug but comfortable. In fact, apart from getting in and out, I find it more comfortable than my BMW daily! 

[Dave Eastwood (Gadgetman) - Club Chairman]

1 hour ago, RobH72 said:

My current car is snug but comfortable

Alas, that’s part of the problem of specialising with the basic car, and chasing bigger power figures. Etc.

 

The Westfield Mega S2000/Sport 250 chassis uses Westfields widest transmission tunnel design in order to fit the physically big gearboxes of higher power engines. It was originally designed for the Ford T5 box, in a slightly different chassis, and used with Cosworth (Sierra) engines, V8’s etc, before being incorporated into what was originally the S2000 chassis, (which has a huge gearbox).
 

A side effect of this, is that the drivers side of the cockpit, at the footwell end, is the narrowest of any modern Westfield.

 

As others have said, you have to watch the higher power thing, as all the chassis and peripherals bing beefed up really hits the overall weight, which in turn, also starts bringing the power to weigh ratio back down. Just something you have to factor in.

[DMc]

10 hours ago, Gaz_b88 said:

 

Is the 2.0 ecoboost out of a mk2 focus ST? Its good to find out these things lie the wide wheels and arches early so i can order them from the factory. 

 

Do you have any pics where you strenghthend the diff cage? Also what box and diff does this set up use? and is the standard westfield prop upto the job?

 

Thanks

 No the Ecoboost  I run is from the MK3 focus circa 2015, this is mated to a Mazda MX5  5 speed, then on to a Ford LSD 

Basically textbook sport 250 set up i think. Westfield can supply all of the installation parts needed to install the 2.0

 

Here a picture of where ive added bars, plus ive strengthened the diff cage itself, similar to the sport250 chassis.

I dont think you can do this if youre using an FW rear end and/or tank as the tank sits above the diff 

 

[Dave Eastwood (Gadgetman) - Club Chairman]

1 hour ago, DMc said:

this is mated to a Mazda MX5  5 speed, then on to a Ford LSD 

Factory cars now have Mazda rear diffs, rather than Ford, this includes diffs supplied for kits as well. Diffs and gearboxes can be supplied new by Westfield, to comply with getting a brand new age related number plate. (Ecoboost engines can also be supplied new, if required).

[the stoat]

One thing to remember is that the while the turbo engines offer a lot of grunt they do this in very undramatic fashion.  I will be hated by the Ecoboost 2.0 fans here, but I gave though to replacing my C20XE with one and my conclusion is in standard form it drives like a diesel.  Flat torque and power dropping off in the 5000 RPM range. While my C20XE is feeble torque wise with the modifications I have it loves revs, but most of all it shrieks and howls with this making me smile. In short it is much more of an spectacle to use hard as opposed to the Ecoboost.   @Dommo's Mazda setup would be my choice as the turbo charger has not got in the way of having a the ability to rev and as such is a brilliant compromise if power is your target.  As above these cars are not all about the power, go have a go in several variants before making a decisions.  Also if you want to do long stints on track you need to consider cooling and the more power you make the more heat you have to deal with.  My car for example will empty a tank of fuel on track, even on a 30 degree summers day, with all temperatures and pressures stable.  But we are all different and opposing approaches are allowed 😄

 

With reference to comfort you can also run very complaint suspension on these even on track, you can see this on AdamR's videos where on his very (very) track focused machine soaks up bumps while staying flat and does not patter patter like most 'sporty' road cars.  I mention this to try and illustrate that unlike the road cars of today you do not need monster power and girders for dampers to have a fun and hugely rapid machine. 

 

 

[DMc]

4 minutes ago, Dave Eastwood (Gadgetman) - Club Secretary said:

Factory cars now have Mazda rear diffs, rather than Ford, this includes diffs supplied for kits as well. Diffs and gearboxes can be supplied new by Westfield, to comply with getting a brand new age related number plate. (Ecoboost engines can also be supplied new, if required).

Thanks for the info Dave 👍 

[Dave Eastwood (Gadgetman) - Club Chairman]

One note of caution, well, sensibility, really, when it comes to advise! It’s always worth remembering, that someone’s advice will often tell you more about them and how they use their car(s) than anything else. If that’s similar to how you will, fantastic, their advice will work well for you. If not, then factor in how much what they’re saying may be quite unconsciously biased away from what will actually suit you.

[the stoat]

6 minutes ago, Dave Eastwood (Gadgetman) - Club Secretary said:

One note of caution, well, sensibility, really, when it comes to advise! It’s always worth remembering, that someone’s advice will often tell you more about them and how they use their car(s) than anything else. If that’s similar to how you will, fantastic, their advice will work well for you. If not, then factor in how much what they’re saying may be quite unconsciously biased away from what will actually suit you.

 

This is spot on, as you can see from my previous post I am obsessed by revs, compliance and temperature control.  I am consciously biased in this direction and unconsciously biased to creating a really usable reliable car at the expense of maximum power.  It would really annoy me if I only had five laps in the car before cool down is required, others seem fine with this. So work out what you want from the car and seek out like minded members of the forum for advice.

[DMc]

@the stoat I have to agree with you, I came from 12,000rpm with low torque to the ecoboost and it was massive difference in engine characteristics. It took a lot of getting used to and i do miss living life in the max rpm band but after some clever mapping and after getting used to the ecoboost characteristics the Torque out of the corners is totally addictive (so are the wooshy twirrly turbo noises)

 

Id say that light revvy high RPM engines suit a 7 the most 

 

Given the choice id possibly go for a mega S2000, these must be a good all-rounder (ive never been in one)

 

 

 

[Dave Eastwood (Gadgetman) - Club Chairman]

I'm lucky enough to have a Mega S2000 and a 1.6 Sigma powered Westfield. Polar opposites. The Sigmas full engine and gearbox probably weigh less than the S2000 engine alone. The Honda gearbox weighs a lot more than the Fords 'box, indeed, it's almost half the weight of the Sigma engine!

 

Such things make a colossal difference to the feel of the cars on the road. The Sigma is half the power of the Honda car, but on tight twisty roads an S2000 will have to work damned hard to keep up. Yet on a fast circuit, the Honda will power away on the straights, and hold it on the bends.

[Kingster]

40 minutes ago, the stoat said:

try and illustrate that unlike the road cars of today you do not need monster power and girders for dampers to have a fun and hugely rapid machine. 

Absolutely. I had a ride in a Lotus Exige and it was a spine snappingly harsh ride. My Westy by comparison was like a limo - and despite having a lot less power felt much quicker. 

[Dave Eastwood (Gadgetman) - Club Chairman]

So true, some of the high performance German stuff in particular, that I've had rides in or driven over the years, have sometimes felt like they've been fitted with those solid chunks of metal or wood people building Westfields occasionally use to mock up suspension

[Alan Cutler (Adge) - Dorset AO]

I’ve built and run a Sport 250 with standard 2L Ecoboost.(252 bhp, 270 ft lbs). Been on the road some 2 1/2 years and covered 9.5k fun filled miles. As Dave says the engine is mated to a Mazda gearbox and diff.

i enjoy driving it, it’s a relaxed tourer with plenty of grunt two up plus luggage, or fun for “spirited” driving or on track. With the torque available your very rarely “in the wrong gear” IYSWIM.

As per Mr Stoats comments the 2L Ecoboost is certainly not a high revving engine (in standard form anyway!), it does provide considerable torque from low revs (circa2k), and max power in the region of 5.5k.

The issue of cooling when on track is currently a concern myself and some other 250 owners have. However, on the road in this country I’ve found it’s ok to date.
However IMHO it can be a propel a Website rapidly once you get used to it, the limiting feature in my case is driver ability/self preservation!

From my experience of group runs, there’s no such thing as a slow Westie, irrespective of “bar talk” power figures. We’ve an Xl in our area powered by a venerable (admittedly well tweaked) A series engine that takes some keeping up with in cars with in the region of twice the power!

WF now sell starter kits for Sport 250 as well as others. Could be a way to get a reinforced chassis to suit whatever “lump” you decide to fit.

In summary, I’m pleased with my choice of car/power unit, but there are a host of their options available. Think a lot depends on whether you want power “out of the box”, or prefer to “tinker” to achieve what you think you want.

[Rob Hunter - Club Secretary]

I agree about bias on views, every Westfield I've seen is different from the next, engines, gearbox ratios, LSD's, wide track or not, damper and spring rates, weights, tyres etc. It just depends on what you use it for and what your own tastes are, fast road, touring or track (or a combination!). 

 

My first westie (a 2.0 blacktop on twin 45's with 160 bhp) was massively more dramatic to drive than my S2000. Due to its setup it wouldn't do anything below 3000 revs then go bananas as the diff gearing was so short. It was easy to spin the rears in the dry in 3rd gear... In the wet it was sideways more often than not! 

 

My S2000 on the other hand will pull 6th from 30mph without hesitation and, despite being almost 50% more powerful and 100kg heavier, has loads more traction and lateral grip. I was almost dissapointed initially due to it being so bl**** competent!

 

Now I'm getting used to it, it's ability to cover ground and suck in the horizon is epic, but mine is predominantly used for the road rather than track. 

[Dommo]

I've been writing a blog post on what it's meant to me on having a 'big power' turbo Westfield which I might repost as a topic on the forum for further debate. The bit I'm struggling with is the summary entitled "So what do I think". For some reason, I found it much easier dispelling the myths of being unresponsive, overheating, undrivable, abysmal throttle response and all the clichés, than I do in stating if I think it's a good idea or not. Probably because I can't back my thoughts up with data!

 

To summarise: I've just had an engine that will rev to 10k and only develop 240bhp delivered. Once I've dropped more than my entire turbo conversions costs into it. I really, really love my turbo engine. It's brilliant. I will never own a faster car. But it's not what I'm looking for in a Westfield.